The God of the Bible Kills People

[Reformed Guy]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=101401224928

I heard this sermon a while back and just gave it another listen.  Preacher was too Calvinistic to be considered IFB, but I expect that the title alone will offend the Free-Bird(X)'ers here.

Anyhoo, in the sermon he makes a couple of references to people being struck down for opposing the Gospel-- even some deacons who died shortly after he and pastor prayed that God would "convert them or kill them."

Any thoughts on that sort of thing?

 

[T-Bone]

While I certainly believe our lives are in God's hands, and I do believe as John said that there are certain sins that lead to death...I find sermons filled with stories of such happening very subjective and mostly self serving to the speaker and his desires.

BTW---it is not only the Calvies that say things like this in sermons...you have such freebirds as Benny Hinn and his ilk who have and many IFBs and SBCers who have and do use the same tactic.

 

[christundivided]

Reminds me of a man I knew that had "pastored" for "30 plus years". It was common for him to declare that if you didn't obey God/him.... that God might just have to put you in the hospital or in the grave. Just so happened that many of those years he was carrying on an affair with a women in the church. Isn't it amazing how God chooses to ignore some people in important positions but rather targets lowly members of the church that don't come but once or twice a week. I can almost hear it now...

"God works in mysterious ways....".

 

[ChuckBob]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=101401224928

I heard this sermon a while back and just gave it another listen.  Preacher was too Calvinistic to be considered IFB, but I expect that the title alone will offend the Free-Bird(X)'ers here.

Anyhoo, in the sermon he makes a couple of references to people being struck down for opposing the Gospel-- even some deacons who died shortly after he and pastor prayed that God would "convert them or kill them."

Any thoughts on that sort of thing?


That's what we call being a bully.


ChuckBob

 

[Izdaari]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=101401224928

I heard this sermon a while back and just gave it another listen.  Preacher was too Calvinistic to be considered IFB, but I expect that the title alone will offend the Free-Bird(X)'ers here.

Anyhoo, in the sermon he makes a couple of references to people being struck down for opposing the Gospel-- even some deacons who died shortly after he and pastor prayed that God would "convert them or kill them."

Any thoughts on that sort of thing?

I think every preacher I've ever heard of that did this stuff was blatantly self-serving. If anyone knows of an exception, I'd like to hear about it.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=101401224928

I heard this sermon a while back and just gave it another listen.  Preacher was too Calvinistic to be considered IFB, but I expect that the title alone will offend the Free-Bird(X)'ers here.

Anyhoo, in the sermon he makes a couple of references to people being struck down for opposing the Gospel-- even some deacons who died shortly after he and pastor prayed that God would "convert them or kill them."

Any thoughts on that sort of thing?

I think every preacher I've ever heard of that did this stuff was blatantly self-serving. If anyone knows of an exception, I'd like to hear about it.

I heard tapes of a preacher named J. Harold Smith in my younger days who preached a sermon named "God's Three Deadlines."  He used examples like a young man standing up and cussing God during the sermon, etc., and then left on his motorcycle and was killed in a wreck on the way home when he lost control. He had other examples as well.  It was very effective at getting people to the altar, I heard at the time.  The problem is that anyone can say stuff like that, and even if it is true, I have second thoughts about using it all the time.  Still, we have the account of Annanias and Saphira in Acts.  I guess if the example really did happen, and you were a witness and knew for sure, it would be ok to use.  But I don't like emotional pleas, but believe in the power of the gospel and the conviction of the Holy Spirit to get people saved.

 

[Reformed Guy]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=101401224928

I heard this sermon a while back and just gave it another listen.  Preacher was too Calvinistic to be considered IFB, but I expect that the title alone will offend the Free-Bird(X)'ers here.

Anyhoo, in the sermon he makes a couple of references to people being struck down for opposing the Gospel-- even some deacons who died shortly after he and pastor prayed that God would "convert them or kill them."

Any thoughts on that sort of thing?

I think every preacher I've ever heard of that did this stuff was blatantly self-serving. If anyone knows of an exception, I'd like to hear about it.

I heard tapes of a preacher named J. Harold Smith in my younger days who preached a sermon named "God's Three Deadlines."  He used examples like a young man standing up and cussing God during the sermon, etc., and then left on his motorcycle and was killed in a wreck on the way home when he lost control. He had other examples as well.  It was very effective at getting people to the altar, I heard at the time.  The problem is that anyone can say stuff like that, and even if it is true, I have second thoughts about using it all the time.  Still, we have the account of Annanias and Saphira in Acts.  I guess if the example really did happen, and you were a witness and knew for sure, it would be ok to use.  But I don't like emotional pleas, but believe in the power of the gospel and the conviction of the Holy Spirit to get people saved.

J. Harold Smith was from my "neck of the woods," so to speak, and though I never heard him in person have heard him quite a bit on the radio.  I have a soft spot for the old-timey IFB type preachers although I can't agree with them on a number of things.  I share their simple faith in scripture and firm stand on its authority, and those things are most important.  I feel closer akin to these than some of the "Reformed" types today who get squishy on the basics in order to seek respectability with the Academy.

But back to the OP--  I see a difference between a preacher who boasts about people getting "killed" for opposing him and one who warns about the dangers of opposing God or the gospel.  I can't help but say that what the preacher says in the sermon above makes me uncomfortable-- partly because it may be a form of manipulation and partly because I know that God does indeed kill people and that his stories may very well be true (and, if they were indeed I can't say that he shouldn't tell them to warn people).  I don't quite know what to think of it.  I know God killed Annanias and Saphira, Herod, and sent bears to eat young mockers-- stories which were recorded to warn us.  I also know that many of the persecutors of the martyrs throughout history died horrific deaths, unexpectedly.  And I know that a fate worse than temporal death awaits those who rebel in eternal fiery torment.

Like I said, I'm undecided.  I wouldn't want to sit under a preacher who made such stories a main staple of his preaching, but it is a sobering reminder to hear occassionally and, as I said, if these are indeed true, probably need to be told.

 

[Matthew1323]

It's funny that you mentioned J. Harold Smith because that's who I was thinking about when reading this thread. After hearing him preach his sermon God's Three Deadlines I practically ran down the aisle as a teen to make sure that I was saved. By the way, my Dad told me later that he was saved as a young man in one of Smith's tent revivals in the 1940s.

As far as preaching those types of sermons regularly, no, I believe that they would become commonplace and lose their effectiveness. Sermons that stir your emotions like Sinners In the Hand of An Angry God will always be remembered and have been used greatly throughout the years. Sometimes, people need to be shaken a bit to be moved to action IMO.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

It's funny that you mentioned J. Harold Smith because that's who I was thinking about when reading this thread. After hearing him preach his sermon God's Three Deadlines I practically ran down the aisle as a teen to make sure that I was saved. By the way, my Dad told me later that he was saved as a young man in one of Smith's tent revivals in the 1940s.

As far as preaching those types of sermons regularly, no, I believe that they would become commonplace and lose their effectiveness. Sermons that stir your emotions like Sinners In the Hand of An Angry God will always be remembered and have been used greatly throughout the years. Sometimes, people need to be shaken a bit to be moved to action IMO.

So remind me, did the person that was killed leave a meeting that Smith was preaching at, or was it from another meeting that he heard about?  Just curious.  I agree, it doesn't hurt to shake someone up if the examples are true and fit the sermon.  I am less enthralled about someone preaching something totally different, then pulling out these examples in the invitation.  The fact of the matter is, when anyone rejects the gospel, whether outspoken or not, they are calling God a liar.  That is never smart, no matter the preacher.

 

[Matthew1323]

It's funny that you mentioned J. Harold Smith because that's who I was thinking about when reading this thread. After hearing him preach his sermon God's Three Deadlines I practically ran down the aisle as a teen to make sure that I was saved. By the way, my Dad told me later that he was saved as a young man in one of Smith's tent revivals in the 1940s.

As far as preaching those types of sermons regularly, no, I believe that they would become commonplace and lose their effectiveness. Sermons that stir your emotions like Sinners In the Hand of An Angry God will always be remembered and have been used greatly throughout the years. Sometimes, people need to be shaken a bit to be moved to action IMO.

So remind me, did the person that was killed leave a meeting that Smith was preaching at, or was it from another meeting that he heard about?  Just curious.  I agree, it doesn't hurt to shake someone up if the examples are true and fit the sermon.  I am less enthralled about someone preaching something totally different, then pulling out these examples in the invitation.  The fact of the matter is, when anyone rejects the gospel, whether outspoken or not, they are calling God a liar.  That is never smart, no matter the preacher.

You apparently heard the message on tape more recently than I heard it. I recall hearing him in person about 34 years ago at the Temple Baptist Church in Powell, TN.  I remember that he used the personal illustrations in the body of the sermon with the points that he was making. The sermon was very convicting to me at the time. I do recall that there were people who he believed apparently had one last chance to make things right with their creator before their lives ended on the earth. Sorry, I do not remember the specifics of each one. I have trouble these days remembering where I put my reading glasses, at times, even when they are in my pocket or around my neck.

J. Harold Smith's radio program is still on the air in East Tennessee. He has been gone for a while but his preaching continues to go out on the airwaves. I need to locate a tape of that old sermon and listen to it again, for old times sake. Thanks, for the reminder.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

It's funny that you mentioned J. Harold Smith because that's who I was thinking about when reading this thread. After hearing him preach his sermon God's Three Deadlines I practically ran down the aisle as a teen to make sure that I was saved. By the way, my Dad told me later that he was saved as a young man in one of Smith's tent revivals in the 1940s.

As far as preaching those types of sermons regularly, no, I believe that they would become commonplace and lose their effectiveness. Sermons that stir your emotions like Sinners In the Hand of An Angry God will always be remembered and have been used greatly throughout the years. Sometimes, people need to be shaken a bit to be moved to action IMO.

So remind me, did the person that was killed leave a meeting that Smith was preaching at, or was it from another meeting that he heard about?  Just curious.  I agree, it doesn't hurt to shake someone up if the examples are true and fit the sermon.  I am less enthralled about someone preaching something totally different, then pulling out these examples in the invitation.  The fact of the matter is, when anyone rejects the gospel, whether outspoken or not, they are calling God a liar.  That is never smart, no matter the preacher.

You apparently heard the message on tape more recently than I heard it. I recall hearing him in person about 34 years ago at the Temple Baptist Church in Powell, TN.  I remember that he used the personal illustrations in the body of the sermon with the points that he was making. The sermon was very convicting to me at the time. I do recall that there were people who he believed apparently had one last chance to make things right with their creator before their lives ended on the earth. Sorry, I do not remember the specifics of each one. I have trouble these days remembering where I put my reading glasses, at times, even when they are in my pocket or around my neck.

J. Harold Smith's radio program is still on the air in East Tennessee. He has been gone for a while but his preaching continues to go out on the airwaves. I need to locate a tape of that old sermon and listen to it again, for old times sake. Thanks, for the reminder.

Yeah, it was about 28 years ago for me, but it seems like that the meeting might have been outdoors at a stadium or something like that.  Anyway, J. Harold has a very distinct voice, and like J. Vernon McGee, once you ever heard them preach, you would recognize them again immediately.  One thing is for sure, you just didn't make an emotional decision and are still in the faith, so the preaching was effective.  Praise the Lord for salvation.

 

[rsc2a]

Bryan Chapell on sermon illustrations:

You also need to be honest in your illustrations. I say that because of the power of illustrations. The more you begin to use illustrations, you will learn the power of those things that happened to you. To talk about something happening to another preacher has a little power, but it is so much more powerful to say,

 

[Reformed Guy]

I need to locate a tape of that old sermon and listen to it again, for old times sake. Thanks, for the reminder.

The Three Dead Lines

 

[Izdaari]

I do recall that there were people who he believed apparently had one last chance to make things right with their creator before their lives ended on the earth.

I bet Smith was right about that. In a large enough audience, it's statistically probable that someone in it will die very soon, maybe even that night.

 

[Matthew1323]

I need to locate a tape of that old sermon and listen to it again, for old times sake. Thanks, for the reminder.

The Three Dead Lines

Thanks.