The Girl(s)

[ifbteaparty]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

 

[Sherryh]

You may be on to something..........truth always raises to the top. There are several posts on monies, and etc. I think we have just touched the surface which can be shocking to his family..........no winners here!!

 

[JrChurch]

Fortunately, the law and the court recognize that a youth's history is not a factor when an adult abuses them. 

 

[Sherryh]

Excellent post............she went for counseling not what happened. He crossed the line........the staff that covered for him will be exposed...justice takes time

 

[rsc2a]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

^^ This is why many people find fundamentalism disgusting.

 

[myeyesareopen]

The staff member who faithfully transported the girl with no questions asked because it was what Preacher wanted....she will not be made to answer for her willful ignorance in this life because she 'sang' in exchange for clemency.

 

[tobytyler]

The staff member who faithfully transported the girl with no questions asked because it was what Preacher wanted....she will not be made to answer for her willful ignorance in this life because she 'sang' in exchange for clemency.

Court records report that the 63 year old female transported the girl across state lines, but later was to report an amber alert on the girl when Schaap failed to return her.  She may have been a bit naive by obeying Schaap's every command, but she wasn't completely ignorant when she realized that something had gone awry.  Schaap had a way of manipulating many, even thousands.  In this case, he not only manipulated the victim, but also a staff member.

 

[abp]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

I am getting a bit irritated by people who want to blame the girl or her parents...also irritated with people who think Schaap was caught on a technicality and didn't really break any laws. Look buddy, maybe you should write your congressmen and senators to get the laws changed so victims can share the blame, amen? The law is the law for a reason, like Judge Lozano said, to PROTECT CHILDREN!

 

[qwerty]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

I am getting a bit irritated by people who want to blame the girl or her parents...also irritated with people who think Schaap was caught on a technicality and didn't really break any laws. Look buddy, maybe you should write your congressmen and senators to get the laws changed so victims can share the blame, amen? The law is the law for a reason, like Judge Lozano said, to PROTECT CHILDREN!

You may want to step away from the Internet for awhile if differing opinions are so upsetting to you.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

It is definitely true that 16 year old girls today are no where near as innocent as they were 60 years ago.  Over half of 16 year olds in American school systems have engaged in sexual activity.

Yes, some teenage girls have seduced older men.  Yes, some 18+ age women have developed infatuations with men in position and power and sought to have the infatuation reciprocated.  Yes, this has happened in religious circles.  Yes, in some circumstances, the girls have admitted to such an intent.

However, as a counselor, especially as a Biblical counselor, measures must be taken, and are taken by reputable counselors, to avoid any such measures as what happened.  The counselor is responsible to help the hurting, not hurt the hurting.  Even if he is being seduced, he has a responsibility as a counselor (not to mention Pastor) to say no and take measures to get the girl help in a manner that would remove himself or any other man from the process.  He failed in his responsibility.

Jack Schaap on the other hand, has a reputation for sexually explicit methods of counseling which goes back several years.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that JS developed an infatuation with this girl and began to act upon that infatuation.  His cunning and charisma joined forces with his position and power to help him get what he wanted.  This is a crime.  His sentence is not because he was an old man who was inappropriate with a young girl.  His sentence was because he abused his position as a trusted counselor, convinced the girl to engage in the activity, refused to come clean, threatened and fired those who questioned his activity and sought to remove evidence of his activity.  All of these are signs that he full well understood he was doing something wrong.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

By the way, "I was seduced" is never an acceptable response to God when he breaks you.  "I was tempted" is never a good excuse to engage in sin.  This is nothing more that blame shifting and self-justification which is a far cry from repentance. 

I would encourage any who have used such an excuse when discovered for their guilt to rather proclaim "I have sinned."

Rather than joining Saul, after he broke God's command and performed the sacrifice, in coming up with multiple excuses or other parties to blame or even "Christian" reasons to violate God's command, just join David in Psalms 51.

 

[prophet]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

Not one word of this post is relevant, in light of the revealed transcripts.  Jude is written to warn us of these perverts, who sexualize the Gospel.  Cain, Balaam, Korah...that's the crowd Dr.Shaft runs with.  If you can read the 'as the angels ministered to Jesus in the Garden' line, and ever again consider Shaft to be anything other than a perverted, stalking, manipulative molester, corrupted through to the core...than don't you ever join the ministry!

Anishinabe

 

[Boomer]

Fortunately, the law and the court recognize that a youth's history is not a factor when an adult abuses them.

Great Post!

 

[Boomer]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

Not one word of this post is relevant, in light of the revealed transcripts.  Jude is written to warn us of these perverts, who sexualize the Gospel.  Cain, Balaam, Korah...that's the crowd Dr.Shaft runs with.  If you can read the 'as the angels ministered to Jesus in the Garden' line, and ever again consider Shaft to be anything other than a perverted, stalking, manipulative molester, corrupted through to the core...than don't you ever join the ministry!

Anishinabe

Great post, Prophet! I have never read any of Schaap's material. Can you explain the "angels ministering to Jesus in the Garden" line to me?

 

[ifbteaparty]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

not defending schaap?......  really?... ....  because if schaaps plea had been anything other than guilty ... and if his case had gone to trial.. . your slanderous speculations about the character of a girl, who you admit to knowing nothing about, are exactly the kinds of things schaap attorney would have argued in his defense .... i can picture some of your "doubts about this girl" as being part of the defense attorneys opening statement to the jury on schaaps behalf.. ..  ... i know because i sat on a witness stand to testify against sexual predators once, and had the same kinds of thing said about me.. when i wasn;t even 10 years old yet.... 

your post is sickening beyond words... ... and i agree with rcs2a...  it;s exactly why people find fundamentalism so disgusting... your devotion to your "men o god" is so great and so overwhelming..  that even when all the evidence is in.. they have been exposed as a predator.... confessed to their crimes... and there is nothing left of them to defend... ... you still can;t resist kicking and stabbing their victims as a last resort... ... 

you are right about one thing...  most of us don;t know anything about this girl.. ....  but after reading your "different perspective".. on a girl you know nothing about.. we now know a lot about you.. ... 

Gear down, big shifter. Anyone who knows me knows that I cannot stand Jack Schaap. I believe he is a deceiver in the same way of Satan. I believe that he has blasphemed the name of Christ so much that I question his salvation.

I am not giving that piece of garbage any excuse; all I was saying is that the media and some on blogs are acting like this girl was the virgin Mary. And I am saying that before we just make blanket statements that this girl was pure, we should probably make sure that the facts back it up.

We do know that Schaap is a blasphemer of God; we do know that Schaap used his position to get what he wanted from this girl; we do know that he will be spending the next 12 years in prison. We do not know anything about this young woman so we shouldn't be echoing the media's assertions of her.

 

[prophet]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

Not one word of this post is relevant, in light of the revealed transcripts.  Jude is written to warn us of these perverts, who sexualize the Gospel.  Cain, Balaam, Korah...that's the crowd Dr.Shaft runs with.  If you can read the 'as the angels ministered to Jesus in the Garden' line, and ever again consider Shaft to be anything other than a perverted, stalking, manipulative molester, corrupted through to the core...than don't you ever join the ministry!

Anishinabe

Great post, Prophet! I have never read any of Schaap's material. Can you explain the "angels ministering to Jesus in the Garden" line to me?

It is from the court transcripts, and goes like this: 'You must be very important to God, because He allowed you to minister to His servant, in his hour of great need, like the angels ministered to Jesus in the garden of Gesthsemane'. 

Anishinabe

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ifbteaparty]I believe he is a deceiver in the same way of Satan.[/quote]

I believe we all are at times.

[quote author=ifbteaparty]I believe that he has blasphemed the name of Christ so much that I question his salvation. [/quote]

I'll leave that type of questioning to God.

[quote author=ifbteaparty]I am not giving that piece of garbage any excuse; all I was saying is that the media and some on blogs are acting like this girl was the virgin Mary. And I am saying that before we just make blanket statements that this girl was pure, we should probably make sure that the facts back it up.[/quote]

It doesn't matter if she let the entire football team take turns with her after every game. As her counselor, it was Schaap's responsibility to keep his hands off of her. It doesn't matter if she stripped down in his office and leaped into his arms. As someone else stated, this was his responsibility because of the role he was filling. He took advantage of that position to have sex with an teenager...in other words, he sexually abused her.

 

[prophet]

I am not defending Schaap in any way, shape, or form. I just want to give a different perspective on this. This "innocent" 17 year old young participated in this activity with a married man. Obviously, Jack the Deceiver coached her into it as evidence of the testimony of the court.

But I have my doubts this girl was an innocent girl who had never even touched another guy. It is obvious that this girl was very troubled. It is also obvious from Schaap's blasphemous last sermon that he was having conversations with many teenagers who were sexually active. It is my opinion that there are probably other girls he spent with "in the woods while walking with God" or at his cabin or at his home or at his office. If I were Pastor Wilkerson, I wouldn't bring a black light into that office!

Schaap has done extreme damage to this young woman, no doubt about it. But let's not jump on the media's bandwagon and act like this was a girl who was as clean as the wind driven snow. Neither the media nor any of us know anything about this young woman.

not defending schaap?......  really?... ....  because if schaaps plea had been anything other than guilty ... and if his case had gone to trial.. . your slanderous speculations about the character of a girl, who you admit to knowing nothing about, are exactly the kinds of things schaap attorney would have argued in his defense .... i can picture some of your "doubts about this girl" as being part of the defense attorneys opening statement to the jury on schaaps behalf.. ..  ... i know because i sat on a witness stand to testify against sexual predators once, and had the same kinds of thing said about me.. when i wasn;t even 10 years old yet.... 

your post is sickening beyond words... ... and i agree with rcs2a...  it;s exactly why people find fundamentalism so disgusting... your devotion to your "men o god" is so great and so overwhelming..  that even when all the evidence is in.. they have been exposed as a predator.... confessed to their crimes... and there is nothing left of them to defend... ... you still can;t resist kicking and stabbing their victims as a last resort... ... 

you are right about one thing...  most of us don;t know anything about this girl.. ....  but after reading your "different perspective".. on a girl you know nothing about.. we now know a lot about you.. ... 

Gear down, big shifter. Anyone who knows me knows that I cannot stand Jack Schaap. I believe he is a deceiver in the same way of Satan. I believe that he has blasphemed the name of Christ so much that I question his salvation.

I am not giving that piece of garbage any excuse; all I was saying is that the media and some on blogs are acting like this girl was the virgin Mary. And I am saying that before we just make blanket statements that this girl was pure, we should probably make sure that the facts back it up.

We do know that Schaap is a blasphemer of God; we do know that Schaap used his position to get what he wanted from this girl; we do know that he will be spending the next 12 years in prison. We do not know anything about this young woman so we shouldn't be echoing the media's assertions of her.

You are missing the point, and you have in times past been relevant, so this is a frustration.  The girl's part in this doesn't matter.
I've been there, in the audience, watching Satanic mass hypnosis at work, at fbch.  This troubled youth was manipulated into bed by the vilest of offenders....a wolf in Shepherd's clothing.  He groomed her, stalked her, used his knowledge of her sexual history to his advantage, used his position, and percieved godliness as a weapon, and the gospel as a snare, to fulfill his own lusts.
  She was a victim, from a Christian's standpoint, as she came looking for God and was greeted by the Devil.  From the media's view, she was a child, trusting her caretaker... which (though we the people of Indiana don't consider a 16 year old a child as it pertains to sex) is exactly the relationship they legitimately had.
  No matter her sin, she should have been led to overcome it, instead of being led to justify a worse sin...adultery.  Please don't ever bring her up again, in any critical light....it really isn't relevant, really.

Anishinabe

 

[myeyesareopen]

No matter her sin, she should have been led to overcome it, instead of being led to justify a worse sin...adultery.  Please don't ever bring her up again, in any critical light....it really isn't relevant, really.

^^^What she said.^^^

And why is it so important for you to cast aspersions, ifbteaparty? Kick a girl when she's down? Very classy. Would it make you feel even more superior to her if you spit on her as well?

 

[RAIDER]

This is an interesting thread.  A couple of weeks ago I had a conversation with a couple of ladies that knew I graduated from HAC.  Both of these ladies are married and have several children.  They had been following the Schaap situation and were asking if I had heard any updates.  During the discussion I said, "It's sad because the girl is the innocent victim".  Boy did I hit a nerve.  Both of them said in so many words, "Give me a break!  That girl is FAR from innocent". 

These gals feel that Schaap is a scumbag and think he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  They would agree with every negative thing about Schaap that has been posted on this thread.  On the other hand, they don't feel for a minute that this girl was brainwashed and wasn't a willing participant.  They feel that she knew exactly what she was doing and she had full opportunity to tell her parents or someone in authority.

Everyone has their opinion.  I thought this was a unique perspective from the female viewpoint.