The Final Death of the "Pants Standard"

cpizzle

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My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I believe this will ring in the final death of the "No Pants on Women" standard.  Despite everything, Ms. Cindy was and still is an influence on thousands of HAC attendees.  If she can do it, then they certainly will believe that they can too!

In full disclosure, I used to preach the standard but quit about 10 years ago.  The Biblical basis was always very sketchy.  To me, it always came down to "Men should dress like men and women like women."  The major distinction between men and women's clothing was pants and dresses.  Thus, women must wear dresses to dress like women.  It later dawned on me that there are men and women's socks, shirts, gloves, shoes, scarves, hats, ect... that look very similar, but are still distinct.  Why couldn't there be pants for men and pants for women.

What does this mean for one of the primary foundations of IFB culture?  I think most preachers have already abandoned the standard as a conviction and mostly speak of it as a "good idea" and not a standard.  They will nod and wink to their faithful women who still adhere to the dresses only, but they will not preach it from the pulpit.  Choir members, Sunday School Teachers, and others will still wear dresses to Church out of respect, but they will wear mostly pants the rest of the week.  The remnant that still outlaws pants will become their own "camp" in IFB politics, but they will begin to lose their mainstream status.  HAC and other Christian Colleges will still require dresses on their ladies just like they require ties on their men.  Not because of sin, but because of identity and tradition.

The new "standard" will be about modesty.  Pants are ok, but not too tight.  Shorts are ok, but not too short.  Sleeveless shirts are ok, but not if they are cut low or reveal too much. 

"Oh the times...they are a changing"
 
What Cindy does has no bearing on our convictions.  The longer I live, the more that I understand that "The best of men are men at best."
 
16KJV11 said:
What Cindy does has no bearing on our convictions.  The longer I live, the more that I understand that "The best of men are men at best."

I believe the "pants" conviction has been on a steady decline for about 10-12 years now.  It only hangs around as a wounded standard still barely clinging to life.  I believe that this picture will finally "mercy kill it" as her influence can still be felt.  This doesn't change my viewpoint, but many (if not most) of our "weaker" friends decide their standards based upon what others do.
 
We all have standards to live by . We will each stand before Christ . I'm responsible for what I do not what others do. I've never been a follower of people because they can change with the weather. God's Word never changes.  I love Cindy and I wish her nothing but the best!!
 
cpizzle said:
My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I don't believe it.

If I didn't see it, it didn't happen.

Shame on those who sow discord among the brethren!

(pssst! - if true, post the photo)
 
Let's be clear....I am not criticizing Ms. Cindy....I say....Good for her!

I am pointing out that her influence will have a major effect.
 
cpizzle said:
Twisted said:
(pssst! - if true, post the photo)

How?  :D

You don't know how to post a photo on the forum?

I'm starting to doubt your salvation.
 
Cindy is just joining all the other Hyles kids in seeing through the man-made legalism of their dad.

As Jerry F said after the Davey-boy  fiasco & debauchery hit the news, "Our ladies may wear pants but at least they keep them on."

 
The question is--- What is Jack Schaap wearing in the big house? Did he and his cellmate tie-the-knot, and if they did, is Jack wearing the skirt, or is Bubba?  ;)
 
Twisted said:
cpizzle said:
My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I don't believe it.

If I didn't see it, it didn't happen.

Shame on those who sow discord among the brethren!

(pssst! - if true, post the photo)



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2015209445174401&set=p.2015209445174401&type=3&theater&ifg=1

 
tobytyler said:
Twisted said:
cpizzle said:
My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I don't believe it.

If I didn't see it, it didn't happen.

Shame on those who sow discord among the brethren!

(pssst! - if true, post the photo)



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2015209445174401&set=p.2015209445174401&type=3&theater&ifg=1

The link doesn't work.
 
There?s this

10333718_859708014058701_1977016694386482073_o.jpg
 
I think this is the image the cpizzle is posting about:

ch_crop.png
 
Norefund said:
I think this is the image the cpizzle is posting about:

ch_crop.png

Looks like they are on vacation not church.
 
cpizzle said:
My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I believe this will ring in the final death of the "No Pants on Women" standard.  Despite everything, Ms. Cindy was and still is an influence on thousands of HAC attendees.  If she can do it, then they certainly will believe that they can too!

In full disclosure, I used to preach the standard but quit about 10 years ago.  The Biblical basis was always very sketchy.  To me, it always came down to "Men should dress like men and women like women."  The major distinction between men and women's clothing was pants and dresses.  Thus, women must wear dresses to dress like women.  It later dawned on me that there are men and women's socks, shirts, gloves, shoes, scarves, hats, ect... that look very similar, but are still distinct.  Why couldn't there be pants for men and pants for women.

What does this mean for one of the primary foundations of IFB culture?  I think most preachers have already abandoned the standard as a conviction and mostly speak of it as a "good idea" and not a standard.  They will nod and wink to their faithful women who still adhere to the dresses only, but they will not preach it from the pulpit.  Choir members, Sunday School Teachers, and others will still wear dresses to Church out of respect, but they will wear mostly pants the rest of the week.  The remnant that still outlaws pants will become their own "camp" in IFB politics, but they will begin to lose their mainstream status.  HAC and other Christian Colleges will still require dresses on their ladies just like they require ties on their men.  Not because of sin, but because of identity and tradition.

The new "standard" will be about modesty.  Pants are ok, but not too tight.  Shorts are ok, but not too short.  Sleeveless shirts are ok, but not if they are cut low or reveal too much. 

"Oh the times...they are a changing"

Well, this is certainly interesting.

I don't know about how much influence Cindy used-to-be-Schaap has, but I agree that she is not the standard.  If women wearing trousers is wrong per the Scripture, it should be wrong all of the time; not just in church. If it's wrong according to the Scripture, vacation should not be an excuse.

THE question, of course, is what does the Scripture say?  It seems clear that God wants men and women to be distinct in appearance - we have the command for men to have short hair and women to have long hair (a "covering").  It's hard to distance oneself from all of the cultural teaching we have been exposed to in our lives.

Our church takes the stance that the Holy Spirit really exists, and that He can work in the hearts of those whom He indwells. It is preached that women and men should be distinctive in dress, but not specifically that pants are sinful.  Choir members, Sunday School teachers, and singers are told that women must wear dresses or skirts, and that men must wear coats and ties, but this is presented as the pastor's requirement /preference.

There is a tradition going back at least a century, if not further, of "dressing up" on Sunday; taking a bit of extra effort in getting ready.  Dresses are still, I believe, considered dressier for women than slacks.

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion.

At our church, this isn't preached against
 
no value said:
The question is--- What is Jack Schaap wearing in the big house? Did he and his cellmate tie-the-knot, and if they did, is Jack wearing the skirt, or is Bubba?  ;)
Exactly!
Enquiring about minds want to know!!

[emoji13]

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 
cpizzle said:
My wife sent me a  picture that popped up on Facebook yesterday of Ms. Cindy Schaap wearing jeans while taking a picture with her daughter and 2 other girls in high shorts.

I believe this will ring in the final death of the "No Pants on Women" standard.  Despite everything, Ms. Cindy was and still is an influence on thousands of HAC attendees.  If she can do it, then they certainly will believe that they can too!

In full disclosure, I used to preach the standard but quit about 10 years ago.  The Biblical basis was always very sketchy.  To me, it always came down to "Men should dress like men and women like women."  The major distinction between men and women's clothing was pants and dresses.  Thus, women must wear dresses to dress like women.  It later dawned on me that there are men and women's socks, shirts, gloves, shoes, scarves, hats, ect... that look very similar, but are still distinct.  Why couldn't there be pants for men and pants for women.

What does this mean for one of the primary foundations of IFB culture?  I think most preachers have already abandoned the standard as a conviction and mostly speak of it as a "good idea" and not a standard.  They will nod and wink to their faithful women who still adhere to the dresses only, but they will not preach it from the pulpit.  Choir members, Sunday School Teachers, and others will still wear dresses to Church out of respect, but they will wear mostly pants the rest of the week.  The remnant that still outlaws pants will become their own "camp" in IFB politics, but they will begin to lose their mainstream status.  HAC and other Christian Colleges will still require dresses on their ladies just like they require ties on their men.  Not because of sin, but because of identity and tradition.

The new "standard" will be about modesty.  Pants are ok, but not too tight.  Shorts are ok, but not too short.  Sleeveless shirts are ok, but not if they are cut low or reveal too much. 

"Oh the times...they are a changing"

Sad that this actually made the news. And I get it but goes to show where the emphasis has been the last generation.
 
A lot of churches are changing their requirement and quoting them as "Leadership Standards". This means anyone on choir or serving on ministry has to dress a certain way. The good thing is that this isn't just for women, its for men as well. If men wanted to be on choir they have to wear a tie and women have to wear a skirt.

^^ if that is the case where both genders have to dress a certain way for a certain ministry, I don't see a problem with that.

On the other hand, pants are clearly a norm style of fashion for both genders in 2018. If I was still as fundamental, I would not hold to wearing short shorts for women.... as men alike haha.
 
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