The children of Abraham

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AresMan

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So as not to derail the thread on "ultra-dispensationalism," I would like to have a discussion about the identity of "the children of Abraham" and how God's promises to Abraham are fulfilled. I used to be a moderate dispensationalist until fairly recently when I was challenged with mid-Acts dispensationalism. Studying this intently brought me kicking and screaming into Covenant Theology (the Reformed Baptist kind, not the Presbyterian kind), because I could not see how a moderate dispensational view could be defended without slipping into mid-Acts or Acts 28 dispensationalism. Then, it seemed that Paul's constant quoting and emphasis from OT scripture and his elaborating on "seed of Abraham" and "heirs according to the promise" indicated that he believed that his readers are "true Israel," and that Israel must be understood apart from strict geopolitical boundaries.

Here is the original promise God made to Abram:
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

How are we to understand God's promise to Abram here? God told Abram that He would make of him a great nation. However, the rest has to do with Abraham specifically. All are blessed in Abraham, not necessarily in Abraham's physical descendants. What does it mean to be blessed "in Abraham"?

Later, when God gives Abraham to covenant of circumcision, He tells him something interesting:
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

In giving Abraham the covenant of circumcision, God tells him that He would make of him many nations. First, God promised Abram that He would make of him "a great nation" (singular), but now, when giving him the "everlasting covenant of circumcision," God tells him that He would make of Abraham "many nations" (plural).  This, for me, solidifies that there is an ontological connection between Israel and the church.

The Apostle Paul elaborates on what it means to be "blessed with Abraham," to be "the seed of Abraham," and what these "many nations" are:

Rom 4:11 And he [Abraham] received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

The promise to Abraham that he would be "the father of many nations" was given in conjunction with circumcision, but it had to do with the gospel of faith. "The father of all them that believe" corresponds with "father of many nations" (Gen 17:3).  Now, are these geopolitical nations, or the fact that there would be "children of Abraham" existing in many nations?:

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

I would surmise that the seed revelation of the same gospel referred to in 3:8 is also that of 1:6-9 ("if any man preach any other gospel").  Paul is unambiguous in his persistent statements here: the Gentiles are bona fide "children of Abraham," and that is only by faith.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law was given not as a permanent identity for a geopolitical nation, but temporarily until The Seed comes to fulfill it. All legitimate "children of Abraham" are so because they have faith in Christ the Promised Seed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

How much clearer and plainer can it be?  The promises given to Abraham have to do with many from all nations have the same faith that he did. The Promised Seed came physically through Abraham, that is what makes Abraham "the father of" those who believe, but there is NOT an eternal, perpetual promise to physical, ethnic Jews simply because of their physical lineage. If Jew and Gentile are equal, it means they are equal. Period.  If we are in a so-called "church age" "parenthesis," and still have to treat a certain enthicity with fragile care differently from others, then Jew and Gentile are NOT EQUAL.

What about the so-called "land promise"? Well, that is fulfilled in Christ and expanded as well:

Gal 3:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Gal 3:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

The original promise to Abraham of bringing him into the land of Canaan was a type and shadow of what would be in Christ in fulfillment. The land of Canaan was an incomplete type of "the world." Abraham's children flowered out from being primarily Jews to being Jews and Gentiles all over the world. The "great nation"--Old Covenant Israel--was an incomplete type of "all nations" would have the faith of Abraham. The ordinances of the law were "a shadow of things to come" in Christ (Col 2:16-17). The priests were a shadow of the perfect ministry of Christ (Heb 8:5).  The sacrifices were a shadow of the one-time sacrifice of Christ (Heb 10:1).  If all these things were "types and shadows" of the Person and work of Christ, why do we have to understand geopolitical promises differently, when those promises are interlaced within the very types and shadows that Christ fulfilled? Paul makes it VERY clear that the promises given to Abraham were fulfilled in Christ and are by faith, and these promises cannot be divorced from the "land promise."

I will continue with a further argument about the ontological unity of Israel and the church from Romans 9-11.
 
AresMan said:
So as not to derail the thread on "ultra-dispensationalism," I would like to have a discussion about the identity of "the children of Abraham" ...

The original promise to Abraham of bringing him into the land of Canaan was a type and shadow of what would be in Christ in fulfillment. The land of Canaan was an incomplete type of "the world." Abraham's children flowered out from being primarily Jews to being Jews and Gentiles all over the world. The "great nation"--Old Covenant Israel--was an incomplete type of "all nations" would have the faith of Abraham. The ordinances of the law were "a shadow of things to come" in Christ (Col 2:16-17). The priests were a shadow of the perfect ministry of Christ (Heb 8:5).  The sacrifices were a shadow of the one-time sacrifice of Christ (Heb 10:1).  If all these things were "types and shadows" of the Person and work of Christ, why do we have to understand geopolitical promises differently, when those promises are interlaced within the very types and shadows that Christ fulfilled? Paul makes it VERY clear that the promises given to Abraham were fulfilled in Christ and are by faith, and these promises cannot be divorced from the "land promise."

I will continue with a further argument about the ontological unity of Israel and the church from Romans 9-11.
Click to expand...

Good topic.  I was just about to start a tangential thread on shadows and types, but will wait to see how this thread plays out before doing that.
 
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

All these statements made concerning Israel apply to us now by virtue of us being "grafted in":

"To whom pertaineth the adoption":
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

"and the glory"
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

"and the covenants"
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

"and the giving of the law"
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was OUR schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, WE are no longer under a schoolmaster.

"and the service of God"
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

"and the promises"
Gal 3:39 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

"Whose are the fathers"
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Paul continues by answering objections to what he had just explained was where salvation was found in chapters 1-8.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

What is the question that Paul is addressing? "Well, Paul, if what you are saying is true, why is it that God's people Israel at large do not seem to be responding to the gospel? Doesn't this mean that God's promises concerning Israel has failed?"
The answer is that God's promises have not failed because God's very word defines what He intended Israel to be, but many Jews believed that they were "heirs of the promise" merely because they were physical descendants of Abraham. Paul explains from the Old Testament that only those Jews who were "of faith" were actually heirs according to "the promise." He will then demonstrate that the promise was also prophesied to extend to Gentiles.  Therefore, Israel is defined not by ethnic or geopolitical boundaries, but by those who identify with Abraham through his faith. This will be the "remnant" of Israel who were faithful plus the Gentiles grafted in through faith.

More to come...
 
Having done a study on the subject some years ago, I don't believe there are any promises made to Abraham that remain unfulfilled - whether literally or spiritually, in the Church.
 
Ransom said:
Having done a study on the subject some years ago, I don't believe there are any promises made to Abraham that remain unfulfilled - whether literally or spiritually, in the Church.
Click to expand...
You mean like...
2Co 1:20  For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

or

Heb 6:13  For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb 6:14  Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Heb 6:15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

or

Rom 4:16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18  Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

or

Gal 3:6  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7  Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9  So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

or

Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

???



Surely you jest.
 
Let me start out by saying that I don't wish to get into any discussions filled with vitriol.  I realize that Christians can genuinely disagree on many subjects and not be false prophets.  I have learned to greatly respect Ransom's exegesis of scripture especially since I considered him to be almost a heretic when I joined the old forum.

The case you make concerning the church replacing Israel is true only as far as the spiritual aspect of it is concerned.  There is no doubt that all born again Christians are spiritual Jews because of faith but that doesn't abrogate the promises concerning Abraham's physical seed. 

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The biggest problem I have concerning the replacement of Israel with the Church is it tends to spiritualize Bible prophecy.  I think some tend to forget that the covenant God made with Abraham not only prophesied the coming of Christ but also promised his physical descendants a permanent possession of the Promised Land unconditionally. 

Gen 12:7  And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
Gen 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Paul makes it very clear that God has not forgotten his chosen people (physical Jews) even though the Church had been established.

Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew...

In His sovereignty, God used the blindness of Israel and their rejection of the Messiah as a vehicle through which Christ would suffer and die for our sins and take out a people for His name.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Act 15:14  Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

At some point leading up to the Second Coming of Christ, the Jewish nation as a whole will accept Christ as the Messiah.

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Prophecies have always been fulfilled literally in scripture.  That is the greatest proof the Bible is inspired as opposed to the Koran and all other religious literature.  The Old Testament prophets proclaimed that one day the Jews would go back to their land never to be driven out again.

Isa 11:11  And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12  And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Amo 9:14  And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15  And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Scofield wrote the following in his study bible of 1909 on Ezekiel 34:28;

"The whole passage (v.23-30) speaks of a restoration yet future, for the remnant which returned after the 70 years, and their posterity, were continually under the Gentile yoke, until, in A.D. 70, they were finally driven from the land into a dispersion which still continues."

Scofield also wrote concerning Ezekiel 38:2;

"Russia and the northern powers have been the latest persecutors of dispersed Israel, and it is congruous both with divine justice and with the covenants (e.g. Gen 15:18, Deut 30:3), that destruction should fall at the climax of the last mad attempt to exterminate the remnant of Israel in Jerusalem. The whole prophecy belongs to the yet future "day of Jehovah"; 

When Scofield wrote those words in 1909, he was mocked because Russia was a Christian Orthodox nation and Israel had not existed as a nation for over 2,000 years.  In 1948 Israel became a nation for the first time in 2500 years and according to scripture they will never be driven out again. 

Jer 31:35  Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37  Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

I believe one would have to have blinders on to not see how God has miraculously preserved the Jews and restored them to their own land in accordance with what the Bible predicted. 
 
AresMan said:

You mean like...

I mean that, yes, but also (more basically) that for every promise (or at least kind of promise) made to Abraham, somewhere in the Old Testament is a direct or implicit statement that it came to pass.
 
The children of Abraham are believers in Jesus Christ. Jesus made that clear in the gospels. One notable example is after Zaccheus was converted - even though he was of the physical lineage of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob he became a "son of Abraham" when he repented. He also pointed out to those who sought to kill him that if Abraham were their father they wouldn't want to kill him because that is not what Abraham would have done. The unbelieving Jews were not true children of Abraham.
 
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