The Arrogance of Pastors

Twisted

Twisted

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Well, I had threatened to start this post, and I'm in the mood to do it.

As we all know, pastors are the "anointed ones", infallible and beyond reproach.

Hah!  That's really funny!

If you have a story, post it.  One story per post.
 
OK, I'll go first.

So....this church builds a new front foyer on the church.  It's gorgeous.  It'll have very large windows in the front, and double glass doors on both ends.  A huge improvement over the existing building.

So a member asks the pastor about the glass for the windows, "Is it going to be tinted?"  Well, no, the pastor said, seeming caught off guard, that will affect the view.  Huh?

You see it's very hot and sunny there.

2 years later the pastor stands and asks for a special offering to have the windows tinted.

So much for the "view".
 
A smaller church had a thing called "Member of the Quarter".

One Sunday, a dear, sweet senior lady saint got up and started telling how the phone calls came in to the pastor.  First one, then another, as they called to vote on the new "Member of the Quarter".

Surprisingly, as the votes were tallied, the pastor's wife was voted as the winner!

The next week, the key members were all talking and one started talking about the vote and how they didn't call in.  Hmm...  Then the next member also said they didn't call in.  This went on until all of them had said they had not called in to vote.  What is up with this?

Well, the pastor wanted his wife to be selected so he made the whole thing up, told the nice lady to get up and tell the story he wanted to be told.  The lady was clueless that it was all a lie.
 
Of course, it's not just pastors - some church members can be very arrogant.

The most arrogant pastor I heard warned the people against disagreeing with the "man of God", and cited people who had criticized him who had been (he c laimed) smitten with disease or death because they dared to cross the "man of God".
 
Of course, there are the members who think that the pastor and his entire family are their private slaves because the pastor is paid by the church.
 
Or the arrogant members who decide that it's their job to keep the pastor humble; they "contribute" to this by paying the pastor a pittance.
 
Walt said:
Or the arrogant members who decide that it's their job to keep the pastor humble; they "contribute" to this by paying the pastor a pittance.
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Please start your own thread on arrogant members.  LOL!
 
Should we mention the arrogance of not returning phone calls?
 
TheRealJonStewart said:
Twisted said:
Should we mention the arrogance of not returning phone calls?
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That's not a Pastor problem, that's this generation's problem and lack of manners.
Click to expand...

This problem is multi-generational.
 
Walt said:
Twisted said:
Should we mention the arrogance of not returning phone calls?
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Phone calls?

How about emails and/or texts?
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Ouch!  Now you've gone from preachin' to meddlin'.
 
Now, this will hard to believe, but the story is true.

There is a church that takes its youth to camp every summer.  The camp is a 4-hour trip, through mountainous areas.

A church member had heard that a certain man was to be the bus driver.  Here is a condensed version of the conversation. 

M:  "Pastor, I heard that you asked Mr. ___ to drive the bus for camp.  Is that correct?"

P:  "Yes, that's correct.  Mr. ___ is a professional truck driver."

M: "But you are aware of why Mr. ___ is no longer a truck driver, aren't you?"

P:  "Yes, but nothing to worry about."

M:  "So the fact that the reason Mr. ___ is no longer a truck driver, the fact that he suffers from sudden seizures that make his body freeze, is of no concern to you?"

P (now sounding agitated):  "There's nothing to worry about.  I trust him.  My own kids will be riding the bus."

M:  "I'm sorry.  I thought you loved your kids more than that.  My child will not ride the bus to camp.  You need to explain to every parent the condition of the bus driver before the trip."

P (really agitated now):  "Well, that is your choice, but Mr. ___ *WILL* be driving the bus!"

M:  "Pastor, you are making a huge mistake.  Do you realize what will happen to you if there is an accident and someone is hurt or killed?  Your pastorate will be over and the church might dissolve."

P:  "Thank you for your concern.  Goodbye."

About 15 minutes passed and the phone rang.  It was the pastor.  He was still agitated but calmer.

P:  "I have replaced Mr. ___ as the driver.  Mr. ___ will now drive."

M:  "Thank you, Pastor.  That was a wise decision."


This is a prime example of arrogance.  The pastor is a good man.  If he was named, many here would know who he is.  He has had a great ministry.

Let me say that he was not arrogant because he is a pastor, but he was arrogant because he is human, and a sinner.  However, it is a trait of leadership to fall into these "I'm infallible" modes.

Also another point that is so important.  The member who spoke to the pastor, do you think his status in the pastor's eyes was increased or diminished?  That member paid a price.

The fact is,  that your relationship with the pastor will be determined by how much of a "Yes man" you are.  Butt kisser would be another way of putting it.
 
Twisted said:
Now, this will hard to believe, but the story is true.

There is a church that takes its youth to camp every summer.  The camp is a 4-hour trip, through mountainous areas.

A church member had heard that a certain man was to be the bus driver.  Here is a condensed version of the conversation. 

M:  "Pastor, I heard that you asked Mr. ___ to drive the bus for camp.  Is that correct?"

P:  "Yes, that's correct.  Mr. ___ is a professional truck driver."

M: "But you are aware of why Mr. ___ is no longer a truck driver, aren't you?"

P:  "Yes, but nothing to worry about."

M:  "So the fact that the reason Mr. ___ is no longer a truck driver, the fact that he suffers from sudden seizures that make his body freeze, is of no concern to you?"

P (now sounding agitated):  "There's nothing to worry about.  I trust him.  My own kids will be riding the bus."

M:  "I'm sorry.  I thought you loved your kids more than that.  My child will not ride the bus to camp.  You need to explain to every parent the condition of the bus driver before the trip."

P (really agitated now):  "Well, that is your choice, but Mr. ___ *WILL* be driving the bus!"

M:  "Pastor, you are making a huge mistake.  Do you realize what will happen to you if there is an accident and someone is hurt or killed?  Your pastorate will be over and the church might dissolve."

P:  "Thank you for your concern.  Goodbye."

About 15 minutes passed and the phone rang.  It was the pastor.  He was still agitated but calmer.

P:  "I have replaced Mr. ___ as the driver.  Mr. ___ will now drive."

M:  "Thank you, Pastor.  That was a wise decision."


This is a prime example of arrogance.  The pastor is a good man.  If he was named, many here would know who he is.  He has had a great ministry.

Let me say that he was not arrogant because he is a pastor, but he was arrogant because he is human, and a sinner.  However, it is a trait of leadership to fall into these "I'm infallible" modes.

Also another point that is so important.  The member who spoke to the pastor, do you think his status in the pastor's eyes was increased or diminished?  That member paid a price.

The fact is,  that your relationship with the pastor will be determined by how much of a "Yes man" you are.
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It is always hard having one's judgment questioned.  We tend to defend ourselves.  I'm a little surprised that Mr. ____ (the first driver) accepted the responsibility to drive a bus, given his condition. I would have expected him to decline as driver.

Yes, the pastor in the first call was arrogant - for the sake of the kids, I'm glad he changed his mind.

To kind of segway into my story, it seems that some pastors give lip service to soul liberty, but punish people who use it. A couple I know aren't big on "Junior Church" - for whatever reason. They prefer that their family stay together and that their children learn to be still in the main church. I don't agree with them, but it's their decision.  They told the pastor of their preference and he claimed he was fine with letting them keep their kids with them.

However... they won't be used in any leadership role (because they are "not on board with the church program"), and, once in a while, during messages, some comments that could be applied to them are made.  This led to them feeling like they weren't wanted, so they left.

Seems senseless to me to lose good members over something so trivial, especially when it was agreed that they had the right to have their children with them in church.

 
I remember that once, during a service at FBC, Jack Hyles was trying to get people to go to a protest against something - sorry, I don't remember what the issue was - and asked people who could show up to stand up. One person that was standing had a beard. Jack Hyles told him, from the pulpit in front of everyone, that he would have to shave if he wanted to join the members of FBC at the protest. He sat down and that was the last time I saw that guy. It struck me as rather arrogant. He was clean cut even with the beard. It was kind of the same style that Tom Brennan has.
 
Norefund said:
It was kind of the same style that Tom Brennan has.
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And yet we don't see Tom Brennan at any protests.  Hmmm......
 
There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.
 
Twisted said:
There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.
Click to expand...

Very common characteristic of IFBs who preach against it, but do it anyway.
Most often covered up for the sake of the ministry.
 
Twisted said:
There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.
Click to expand...

The old order Amish have this right. They can only have buttons! ;D (no zippers because that is worldly)
 
BALAAM said:
Twisted said:
There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.
Click to expand...

The old order Amish have this right. They can only have buttons! ;D (no zippers because that is worldly)
Click to expand...

Not that it matters but . . .

2 Points
1.  Old Order Amish do not use buttons either.  They use pins, and hook and loop fastener.
2.  Amish do not use more modern fasteners such as buttons, zippers or Velcro not because it is worldly.  It is now more tradition because at the time of these newly created fasteners, if one would use them it might create either a envy in another or a pride in the wearer.

Most of the Amish laws regarding conveniences originally had to do with not stirring up envy in another nor pride in oneself and very much less to do with not being "worldly".

Although as it evolved the very essence of such piety became a source of pride and unrighteous judgment of others. 
 
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