Scriptural Discussion - The Baptism of John

[RAIDER]

We know that baptism is an outward sign of an inward change.  We know it pictures the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.  In a recent thread we established that those that were on earth during Christ's ministry were blind to His death, burial, and resurrection.  They were preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.  Here is the topic of discussion - What differences are there between John's baptism and the baptism we know today?

Matthew 3
"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins."

Mark 1
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."

Luke 3
"......the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

 

[rsc2a]

John's baptism was part of a call for national repentance in hopes that God was send the Messiah.

Christian baptism was/is a means by which one identifies themselves/is identified as a participant in the Kingdom of God. It includes an acknowledgement that the Messiah has come.

 

[cpizzle]

The baptism of John was an outward representation of "repentance" symbolizing the washing away of sins in preparation for the "Kingdom of Heaven."  It was about getting your life right since the messiah was coming.

 

[Fresh Air]

Our baptism looks backward. It proclaims publicly our faith in Jesus as the Christ, as the Son of God, and as the Saviour of our souls. It is absolutely specific in this sense. It points to a faith in a particular individual who walked the Earth two thousand years ago.

John's baptism looked forward. It did not profess faith in Jesus so much as profess faith in the coming Messiah, in God's kingdom, and in Jehovah. It was a public symbol that you were not just an ethnic Jew but a believing Jew, holding firmly to God's promises. It is, in this sense, generic. It points to a faith in the promises of God but not that any particular individual is/was/will be the Christ.

In my blog on the life of Christ you can find this in reference to John's message:


The Jews of John's day would have been familiar with the concept of baptism. It was required of proselytes (Gentile converts to Judaism), along with circumcision and sacrifices. The Greeks used the word 'baptize' in the fuller's trade, which produced cloth. Woven wool was first baptized in bleach and then in dye to produce a dramatic and visible purification. As such, baptism came to be understood metaphorically as symbolic of just such a dramatic cleansing and change coming to a person as well. John's baptism, then, was a public declaration of confession and repentance already taken place in the heart, and of faith in God's promises of a soon coming King.

The common Jewish man of the day swallowed the line fed to him by his religious leaders that he would get into Heaven on the basis of his ethnic identity as a Jew. John's job was to show them plainly that this was not so, but to rather show them the necessity for a genuine heart change, repentance from their sin, and faith in God's promises. The commonly held idea of the day that all Jews went to Heaven simply because they were Jews was called 'the merits of the fathers.' In other words, the Jews of John's time would skate into Heaven because of what Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had done. In fact, the Talmud taught that Abraham sat at the gate of hell to turn back any Jew who somehow accidentally got that far.
       
John the Baptist's message flew directly in the face of that, demanding a personal repentance from sin and a personal faith in the promises of God of a soon coming King (Matthew 3.9).

There never has been but one way to Heaven, whether one lived before Christ or after Him. We must, in humility, repent of our sin, and in faith believe the Word of God regarding Jesus Christ. The Messiah was sent to take away Israel's sin (Isaiah 53) and He did exactly that. John's message was that He was coming. Our message is that He did come, and that He is coming again.


...the rest of that particular post you can find here: http://concerningjesus.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-message-of-john-baptist.html

 

[rsc2a]

Christian baptism is about both the historical and the eschatological.


It's also about the present. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

John's baptism was part of a call for national repentance in hopes that God was send the Messiah.

Christian baptism was/is a means by which one identifies themselves/is identified as a participant in the Kingdom of God. It includes an acknowledgement that the Messiah has come.

^^^^^
This...

 

[prophet]

This seems self-explanatory to me:

Act 19:1-5
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus:and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[RAIDER]

There never has been but one way to Heaven, whether one lived before Christ or after Him. We must, in humility, repent of our sin, and in faith believe the Word of God regarding Jesus Christ. The Messiah was sent to take away Israel's sin (Isaiah 53) and He did exactly that. John's message was that He was coming. Our message is that He did come, and that He is coming again.
[/i]

Tom, I know this is off of the OP but you said, "....in faith believe the Word of God regarding Jesus Christ".  Would you say that someone in the OT would have to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ in order to go to Heaven, or are you saying that they had to believe what light they had been given concerning Christ? 

 

[Fresh Air]

are you saying that they had to believe what light they had been given concerning Christ?

This

 

[RAIDER]

are you saying that they had to believe what light they had been given concerning Christ?

This

I know there is no standard answer to this question, but what do you think someone like Noah knew about Christ?

 

[prophet]

are you saying that they had to believe what light they had been given concerning Christ?

This

I know there is no standard answer to this question, but what do you think someone like Noah knew about Christ?

If I may, Job called Him "my redeemer".

 

[Fresh Air]

I know there is no standard answer to this question, but what do you think someone like Noah knew about Christ?

I think (emphasis on the word 'think') that Noah knew much more than the Scripture reveals. I think he had long conversations with his forefathers. To those men Adam was still very real, and the truths he would have shown them would have been rather clear. But what I do know is that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. And however you slice that it is enough for me.

 

[prophet]

If I may,
Enoch knew of the Second Coming.

Jud 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

[baptistpreach]

John's baptism is a very interesting topic, I believe that it was fully consistent with what his purpose was. To "prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" He was the forerunner whose job was to prepare people for Jesus Christ. He clearly was preparing people by telling them that Messiah would (and then later had) come. Obviously he baptized Jesus and I believe he also baptized his disciples. Several of them are very clearly John's disciples first.

Getting baptized by John brought identification (Acts 19:3 - unto what were ye baptized?) and showed obedience or desire to live a godly life. I also believe John's baptism was totally valid and not Old Testament (Acts 19:4).

As the friend of the bridegroom, he was clearly God ordained and fulfilled his purpose in a powerful way.

 

[prophet]

I know there is no standard answer to this question, but what do you think someone like Noah knew about Christ?

I think (emphasis on the word 'think') that Noah knew much more than the Scripture reveals. I think he had long conversations with his forefathers. To those men Adam was still very real, and the truths he would have shown them would have been rather clear. But what I do know is that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. And however you slice that it is enough for me.

Agreed, and I've posted a couple of direct revelations of what people before and after Noah prophesied.

Job actually straitened out my Darbyist Eschatology.
Thank God for his testimony, 3500 years ago, understanding that he had a sure hope in his Redeemer, Resurrection, Glorified body, etc.

We don't have several thousand years of written prophecy, but it was there, being passed down from Adam til Moses.

 

[RAIDER]

John's baptism is a very interesting topic, I believe that it was fully consistent with what his purpose was. To "prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" He was the forerunner whose job was to prepare people for Jesus Christ. He clearly was preparing people by telling them that Messiah would (and then later had) come. Obviously he baptized Jesus and I believe he also baptized his disciples. Several of them are very clearly John's disciples first.

Getting baptized by John brought identification (Acts 19:3 - unto what were ye baptized?) and showed obedience or desire to live a godly life. I also believe John's baptism was totally valid and not Old Testament (Acts 19:4).

As the friend of the bridegroom, he was clearly God ordained and fulfilled his purpose in a powerful way.

Welcome aboard, baptistpreach!