Passover Wine

subllibrm

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Since the seder is still practiced by Jewish people and they do it according to the teachings of scripture, I would like to know if they use alcoholic wine in the passover meal. Anyone know?
 
All of the Jews I know who still celebrate Passover (and I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood) drank real wine. 

I also saw them drink beer now and then when I was young.  Usually Miller. 

I recall seeing Manischewitz wine in some of their homes.  They produce various kosher wines.  I tasted it once.  Sickeningly sweet, IMO. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manischewitz

By the way, I've obviously known many Jewish people, and a handful of Messianic Jews.  Never once have I ever heard them preach abstinence from alcohol, nor have I ever heard them claim references to wine in the Bible are really references to grape juice.  I'm too lazy to google it, but someone might try to find any Rabbi claiming it was grape juice.  That would be amusing. 

 
subllibrm said:
Since the seder is still practiced by Jewish people and they do it according to the teachings of scripture, I would like to know if they use alcoholic wine in the passover meal. Anyone know?

For the most part, yes, they do.
 
Ok I googled a little.  While I was browsing around, I stumbled on a number of references to requests to the pope for alcoholic priests to be able to use grape juice.  I saw mixed answers (yes in some cases, no in others, but you can use wine that has just started fermenting).  These were links from Rabbi discussions about the subject. 

What I find interesting is the underlying assumption that communion wine MUST be wine, not grape juice. 
 
Castor Muscular said:
By the way, I've obviously known many Jewish people, and a handful of Messianic Jews.  Never once have I ever heard them preach abstinence from alcohol, nor have I ever heard them claim references to wine in the Bible are really references to grape juice.

Well then, it's quite obvious to me that Jews no NOTHING about the Old Testament, and that REAL Bible believers who let the Spirit interpret the Bible for them KNOW drinking alcohol is FORBIDDEN!

Oh.......wait......IFB indoctrination.......flashback......must....push...through...this.........






OK.  Much better.  L'Chaim!!!!!

493621.jpg


 
Castor Muscular said:
All of the Jews I know who still celebrate Passover (and I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood) drank real wine. 

I also saw them drink beer now and then when I was young.  Usually Miller. 

I recall seeing Manischewitz wine in some of their homes.  They produce various kosher wines.  I tasted it once.  Sickeningly sweet, IMO. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manischewitz

I have had kosher wine. I agree it's sickeningly sweet, at least the ones made from Concord grapes are, which is an innovation by American Jewish immigrants. But dry kosher wines of higher quality have gained popularity, so kosher wine isn't necessarily the super sweet stuff.
 
Timothy said:
Why trust anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as Messiah?  :o




;D

Why trust them with what?

Weapons technology? Israeli armaments are top-shelf, the best in the world within the limitations of their modest industrial base.

Christian theology? Definitely not!

Jewish traditions? I'd ask a rabbi before anybody else.

Jewish food? I'd ask a Jewish deli owner before anybody else.
 
subllibrm said:
Since the seder is still practiced by Jewish people and they do it according to the teachings of scripture, I would like to know if they use alcoholic wine in the passover meal. Anyone know?

Yes they do and they use commercial wine as well. Jews don't have the same issues with alcohol that the rest of the world does. I think it's because it was common for our ancestors to over-indulge whereas in Jewish history being drunk or over-indulging was repulsive. I found this - I don't know how true it is but it's interesting. http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/genetics/a/blcah030307.htm
 
Castor Muscular said:
Ok I googled a little.  While I was browsing around, I stumbled on a number of references to requests to the pope for alcoholic priests to be able to use grape juice.  I saw mixed answers (yes in some cases, no in others, but you can use wine that has just started fermenting).  These were links from Rabbi discussions about the subject. 

What I find interesting is the underlying assumption that communion wine MUST be wine, not grape juice.

I think also it wasn't Jesus' intention for everyone (especially Gentiles) to celebrate the Passover seder so traditional Passover wine isn't necessary.
 
Izdaari said:
Castor Muscular said:
All of the Jews I know who still celebrate Passover (and I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood) drank real wine. 

I also saw them drink beer now and then when I was young.  Usually Miller. 

I recall seeing Manischewitz wine in some of their homes.  They produce various kosher wines.  I tasted it once.  Sickeningly sweet, IMO. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manischewitz

I have had kosher wine. I agree it's sickeningly sweet, at least the ones made from Concord grapes are, which is an innovation by American Jewish immigrants. But dry kosher wines of higher quality have gained popularity, so kosher wine isn't necessarily the super sweet stuff.

It's sweet? I've had wine grapes and they were not my cup of tea - too bitter.
 
brianb said:
Izdaari said:
Castor Muscular said:
All of the Jews I know who still celebrate Passover (and I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood) drank real wine. 

I also saw them drink beer now and then when I was young.  Usually Miller. 

I recall seeing Manischewitz wine in some of their homes.  They produce various kosher wines.  I tasted it once.  Sickeningly sweet, IMO. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manischewitz

I have had kosher wine. I agree it's sickeningly sweet, at least the ones made from Concord grapes are, which is an innovation by American Jewish immigrants. But dry kosher wines of higher quality have gained popularity, so kosher wine isn't necessarily the super sweet stuff.

It's sweet? I've had wine grapes and they were not my cup of tea - too bitter.

Concord grapes are very sweet, plus they add sugar to some of those wines (like Manischewitz).
 
Castor Muscular said:
brianb said:
Izdaari said:
Castor Muscular said:
All of the Jews I know who still celebrate Passover (and I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood) drank real wine. 

I also saw them drink beer now and then when I was young.  Usually Miller. 

I recall seeing Manischewitz wine in some of their homes.  They produce various kosher wines.  I tasted it once.  Sickeningly sweet, IMO. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manischewitz

I have had kosher wine. I agree it's sickeningly sweet, at least the ones made from Concord grapes are, which is an innovation by American Jewish immigrants. But dry kosher wines of higher quality have gained popularity, so kosher wine isn't necessarily the super sweet stuff.

It's sweet? I've had wine grapes and they were not my cup of tea - too bitter.

Concord grapes are very sweet, plus they add sugar to some of those wines (like Manischewitz).

Concord grapes. Well now that makes sense. Welch's uses Concord grapes.
 
brianb said:
Concord grapes. Well now that makes sense. Welch's uses Concord grapes.

White grape juice is also very sweet.  I wonder if they use concord grapes for that? 

EDIT:  Nope.  Niagara grapes.  I thought they might have used concord without the skins (color).
 
This is a subject I have always wondered about and have heard it both ways. Does anyone know if the words for wine in the NT could mean either fermented or not?

A couple of years ago at fbch, they were preparing to have communion in a night service. It was my understanding that they poured the juice into small cups earlier in the day but didn't store it in a cool room. I got there at night and it had begun to grow mold on the top of some of the glasses. It started to appear on more glasses right before our eyes and they had to dump all of them and pour new stuff.

How did they keep the juice from spoiling before refrigeration? Things I have wondered about.
 
admin said:
The word "wine" always means fermented wine.

"New wine" is freshly made wine beginning to ferment.

See this post: http://www.fundamentalforums.org/index.php?topic=1977.msg33239.msg#33239

I think that is true of the original Greek (oinos) and Hebrew (I don't know what that is off hand) but the English wine is generic - it can mean either unpasteurized or pasteurized. Welch originally called his beverage Unfermented Wine and they do sell non-alcoholic "wine" in stores.
 
brianb said:
I think that is true of the original Greek (oinos) and Hebrew (I don't know what that is off hand)

its yayin

,
brianb said:
Welch originally called his beverage Unfermented Wine and they do sell non-alcoholic "wine" in stores.

yup, in the grape juice aisle  :P
 
brianb said:
It's sweet? I've had wine grapes and they were not my cup of tea - too bitter.

There are two principal species of grape: Vitis viniferis and Vitis labrusca. Virtually all wines (and all fine wines) are made of V. viniferis, and the cultivars that make wine are generally (but not always) unsuitable for eating, because they are quite acidic.  It's a good quality for winemaking, but not necessarily for fresh fruit salad! Sometimes you can find muscat grapes in the stores, and they're pretty good. (Incidentally, muscat is the only wine with a definite grape flavour!)

Concord grapes are a cultivar of V. labrusca, which is native to North America. They're used for table grapes, jams and jellies, grape juice, and so forth because they're very sweet, and not as acidic.  Hence they tend to make very sweet wines that winetasters would tend to call "flabby," meaning that the sweetness is not balanced by acidity. Wines made with V. labrusca also tend to have an off-flavour they call "foxy." There are some labrusca and hybrid varietals that are pretty good, but relatively few.
 
Ransom said:
brianb said:
It's sweet? I've had wine grapes and they were not my cup of tea - too bitter.

There are two principal species of grape: Vitis viniferis and Vitis labrusca. Virtually all wines (and all fine wines) are made of V. viniferis, and the cultivars that make wine are generally (but not always) unsuitable for eating, because they are quite acidic.  It's a good quality for winemaking, but not necessarily for fresh fruit salad! Sometimes you can find muscat grapes in the stores, and they're pretty good. (Incidentally, muscat is the only wine with a definite grape flavour!)

Concord grapes are a cultivar of V. labrusca, which is native to North America. They're used for table grapes, jams and jellies, grape juice, and so forth because they're very sweet, and not as acidic.  Hence they tend to make very sweet wines that winetasters would tend to call "flabby," meaning that the sweetness is not balanced by acidity. Wines made with V. labrusca also tend to have an off-flavour they call "foxy." There are some labrusca and hybrid varietals that are pretty good, but relatively few.

So what do you think Boone's Farm is made of? lol
 
BALAAM said:
So what do you think Boone's Farm is made of? lol

I'm guessing Gallo pays restaurants to send back the dregs of all the drinks they sell. Alcoholic or otherwise.
 
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