Obamacare now projected to cost over 2 trillion more than Obama predicted

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[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]
blah
[/quote]

LOL Weekly Standard, another toe-the-party-line conservative rag.

Come back when you have a reputable source.
 
Yeah jimmudcatgrant...you know one like MSNBC! 8)
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah jimmudcatgrant...you know one like MSNBC! 8)

MSNBC would be better, but then again - a random Facebook post would have more credibility than the Weekly Standard.

But having said that about MSNBC, I never use them. Don't like the website graphics and the flash controls/animation.
 
redgreen5 said:
T-Bone said:
Yeah jimmudcatgrant...you know one like MSNBC! 8)

MSNBC would be better, but then again - a random Facebook post would have more credibility than the Weekly Standard.

But having said that about MSNBC, I never use them. Don't like the website graphics and the flash controls/animation.

Wow now there is a real surprise answer... ::)
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah jimmudcatgrant...you know one like MSNBC! 8)

I hear you!  But the fact that comrade red doesn't like my source only lends to its credence.
 
jimmudcatgrant said:
T-Bone said:
Yeah jimmudcatgrant...you know one like MSNBC! 8)

I hear you!  But the fact that comrade red doesn't like my source only lends to its credence.

This is true!
 
[quote author=T-Bonehead]

Wow now there is a real surprise answer... ::)
[/quote]

Sounds like you are used to having your biased sources rejected.
Hmm.
One wonders why you continue trying to sneak them into the debate, then -- as opposed to actually finding reputable sources.

Actually, one does *not* wonder why.
One already knows why.
 
[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Come back when you have a reputable source.


All right, I will use one of your sources.[/quote]

Forbes is not one of my sources; it's actually a right-leaning pro-business magazine.
I simply enjoyed using it against you clowns, since Forbes is insulated against the charge of being a left-wing source.


Pay close attention to the first sentence.  I think Forbes is making a reference to you.

As for Merrill Matthews, he's an op-en contributor with an obvious political slant.  Even his publication byline admits that fact:

Merrill Matthews, Contributor
I explore public policy and politics and expose liberal nonsense.


Come back when you have a reputable source.
 
redgreen5 said:
[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Come back when you have a reputable source.


All right, I will use one of your sources.

Forbes is not one of my sources; it's actually a right-leaning pro-business magazine.
I simply enjoyed using it against you clowns, since Forbes is insulated against the charge of being a left-wing source.


Pay close attention to the first sentence.  I think Forbes is making a reference to you.

As for Merrill Matthews, he's an op-en contributor with an obvious political slant.  Even his publication byline admits that fact:

Merrill Matthews, Contributor
I explore public policy and politics and expose liberal nonsense.


Come back when you have a reputable source.
[/quote]

I guess I'm curious about something (and perhaps you've already addressed this elsewhere but since I'll admit I don't read all of your posts I may have missed it)....

Exactly what do you consider to be a "reputable source?"
 
[quote author=HeDied4U]Exactly what do you consider to be a "reputable source?"
[/quote]

People who agree with his preconceived biases.
 
rsc2a said:
People who agree with his preconceived biases.

As I like to put it:

"You might be a liberal/progressive if you are tolerant of all the diverse people who agree 100% with your ideology."

 
[quote author=HeDied4U]
I guess I'm curious about something (and perhaps you've already addressed this elsewhere but since I'll admit I don't read all of your posts I may have missed it)....

Exactly what do you consider to be a "reputable source?"
[/quote]

Here's an example, using FOX News as the case study in bias:

FOX is a poor source of news. I have heard that fact from people on all parts of the political spectrum, although (to your point) it does come more frequently from people on the left.  That's natural, since FOX spends most of its free time attacking people on the left; kick somebody, and they're likely to kick you right back.  But I've also heard FOX's reputation and bias being pointed out by non-leftists.  It just depends on their level of maturity and intellectual integrity.

I belong to several online forums where economics and politics are discussed by more serious invidividuals.  Nobody quotes FOX, just like nobody quotes the National Enquirer and just like nobody quotes the Industrial Workers of the World. While the participant may *agree* with the comments in sources like these, the goal is to craft the persuasive argument that is backed by reputable sources.  So if the item was found on FOX News, then the first thing that happens is they try to find independent confirmation of the story from a reputable source.  If they can, then they'll source the story from the reputable source instead. 

It's sort of like financial credit rating.  Would you give someone with a 750 credit score a loan for $1000?  Probably you would, since that's a great score. But would you give someone with a 300 score the same loan for $1000?  You *might*, but only after more extensive paperwork and probably getting a co-signer.  That's the situation that FOX News is in. It's the same situation that Murdoch's other papers (News of the World, recently shut down, The Sun, etc.) find themselves in.

So having said all that , some points:

1. If you believe that there is no such thing as total freedom from bias, then fine. But that does not absolve you of the need to find the least biased news.  Throwing up your hands and saying, "nobody is free from bias, so I'll just read whatever makes my beliefs sound good" is not a solution. It's not an all-or-nothing scenario; "if we can't have total freedom from bias, then remove the bolt on the door and let all sources in because they're all equally biased."  There is still a spectrum of bias from *less* to *more*.  It takes some effort to navigate that spectrum.

2. Reading lots of sources is always the wisest course.  Not just as a safeguard against bias, but the simple fact is that there is too MUCH news out there for any one source to cover.  So if you want to know what happened in the country (or the world) today, you kinda have to read 3 or 4 news sources, because they all emphasize different things.  That's why I read Al-Jazeera, the Vancouver Sun, The Economist, Ha-Aretz, etc.  I used to read the SCMP (South China Morning Post) but it's been awhile since I looked at it....But when you do this, you get a much more rounded view of the world and the events that impacted people during the last 24 hours.

3. If you cannot substantiate your claim from a mainline source (preferably more than one), then you have a problem. If the only place that your claim shows up is in op-ed columns, fringe websites, chain-email letters, online BBS forums (i.e., freerepublic.com), then you have a problem.  If you think you're going to get other people to accept your badly sourced, obviously slanted sources as objective fact, you have more than a problem: you have a delusion.
 
redgreen5 said:
I belong to several online forums where economics and politics are discussed by more serious invidividuals. 

No surprise there.  Most of those basement dwellers probably can not spell individuals either.
 
redgreen5 said:
[quote author=HeDied4U]
I guess I'm curious about something (and perhaps you've already addressed this elsewhere but since I'll admit I don't read all of your posts I may have missed it)....

Exactly what do you consider to be a "reputable source?"

Here's an example, using FOX News as the case study in bias:

FOX is a poor source of news. I have heard that fact from people on all parts of the political spectrum, although (to your point) it does come more frequently from people on the left.  That's natural, since FOX spends most of its free time attacking people on the left; kick somebody, and they're likely to kick you right back.  But I've also heard FOX's reputation and bias being pointed out by non-leftists.  It just depends on their level of maturity and intellectual integrity.

I belong to several online forums where economics and politics are discussed by more serious invidividuals.  Nobody quotes FOX, just like nobody quotes the National Enquirer and just like nobody quotes the Industrial Workers of the World. While the participant may *agree* with the comments in sources like these, the goal is to craft the persuasive argument that is backed by reputable sources.  So if the item was found on FOX News, then the first thing that happens is they try to find independent confirmation of the story from a reputable source.  If they can, then they'll source the story from the reputable source instead. 

It's sort of like financial credit rating.  Would you give someone with a 750 credit score a loan for $1000?  Probably you would, since that's a great score. But would you give someone with a 300 score the same loan for $1000?  You *might*, but only after more extensive paperwork and probably getting a co-signer.  That's the situation that FOX News is in. It's the same situation that Murdoch's other papers (News of the World, recently shut down, The Sun, etc.) find themselves in.

So having said all that , some points:

1. If you believe that there is no such thing as total freedom from bias, then fine. But that does not absolve you of the need to find the least biased news.  Throwing up your hands and saying, "nobody is free from bias, so I'll just read whatever makes my beliefs sound good" is not a solution. It's not an all-or-nothing scenario; "if we can't have total freedom from bias, then remove the bolt on the door and let all sources in because they're all equally biased."  There is still a spectrum of bias from *less* to *more*.  It takes some effort to navigate that spectrum.

2. Reading lots of sources is always the wisest course.  Not just as a safeguard against bias, but the simple fact is that there is too MUCH news out there for any one source to cover.  So if you want to know what happened in the country (or the world) today, you kinda have to read 3 or 4 news sources, because they all emphasize different things.  That's why I read Al-Jazeera, the Vancouver Sun, The Economist, Ha-Aretz, etc.  I used to read the SCMP (South China Morning Post) but it's been awhile since I looked at it....But when you do this, you get a much more rounded view of the world and the events that impacted people during the last 24 hours.

3. If you cannot substantiate your claim from a mainline source (preferably more than one), then you have a problem. If the only place that your claim shows up is in op-ed columns, fringe websites, chain-email letters, online BBS forums (i.e., freerepublic.com), then you have a problem.  If you think you're going to get other people to accept your badly sourced, obviously slanted sources as objective fact, you have more than a problem: you have a delusion.
[/quote]

Thank you for your reply.
 
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