No solid work, humanly speaking, is built apart from longevity of leadership.

Tarheel Baptist

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I heard Johnny Hunt make that statement in a lecture on spiritual leadership in the local church.

I concede the fact that Christ thru the Holy Spirit 'builds the church'.
Hunt was speaking specifically about leaders who always look for greener pastures (bigger churches) and leaders who leave when trouble comes. The average tenure of a Baptist Pastor is less than 5 years, I'm told.
Hunt's proposition was that a Pastor needs to stay a lengthy period of time in order to help the church to prosper.

Do you think he has a legitimate point?
Why or why not?
 
Some research on the subject, from the SBC:
"Yet, research has shown that the average stay for an SBC pastor is 4 years (this was 9 years ago, I’ve heard people say its closer to 3 but haven’t found the actual stats); while other research shows that the greatest period of a pastor’s ministry comes in years 5-14.  Our average misses the beginning of that mark by a full year".
 
If it is just a job then pastors will move to the better positions. 

If the calling is to be a shepherd, then the size of the flock is not the issue...
 
Mathew Ward said:
If it is just a job then pastors will move to the better positions. 

If the calling is to be a shepherd, then the size of the flock is not the issue...

Exactly the point Johnny Hunt was making.
You and Johnny Hunt.....kindred spirits!  :D
 
This is exactly why Jesus is the head of the body.  Not the Baptist pope.
 
Mathew Ward said:
If it is just a job then pastors will move to the better positions. 

If the calling is to be a shepherd, then the size of the flock is not the issue...

I (i.e. Jesus) am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Mathew Ward said:
If it is just a job then pastors will move to the better positions. 

If the calling is to be a shepherd, then the size of the flock is not the issue...

I (i.e. Jesus) am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Jesus wept.
 
bgwilkinson said:
This is exactly why Jesus is the head of the body.  Not the Baptist pope.

I don't know what that means in this context....you understand the concept of a LOCAL church, don't you?
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Mathew Ward said:
If it is just a job then pastors will move to the better positions. 

If the calling is to be a shepherd, then the size of the flock is not the issue...

I (i.e. Jesus) am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Jesus wept.

and-jesus-wept-ii-ricky-barnard.jpg
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
bgwilkinson said:
This is exactly why Jesus is the head of the body.  Not the Baptist pope.

I don't know what that means in this context....you understand the concept of a LOCAL church, don't you?

Jesus is the head of every local assembly, not the Pastor or Elders, they are at more under sheppards, not overlords.
 
Who is this verse referring to?

7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation
 
OZZY said:
Who is this verse referring to?

7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation

And who is this refering to?

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have ONE teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have ONE Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have ONE instructor, the Christ.

“You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all."
 
OZZY said:
Who is this verse referring to?

7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation


Gill says:

Hebrews 13:7
Remember them which have the rule over you,.... Christ's church is a kingdom, and he is King in it; pastors of churches are subordinate governors; who rule well when they rule not in an arbitrary way, according to their own wills, but according to the laws of Christ, with all faithfulness, prudence, and diligence. The word may be rendered "guides" or "leaders"; for such point out the way of peace, life, and salvation to men, and direct them to Christ; and guide them into the understanding of the Scriptures, and the truths of the Gospel; and lead them in the paths of faith and holiness, and are examples to them. The Greek word, here used, is what the Jews call Christian bishops by; and ηγεμονια, is, by Maimonides (w), said to be the same as פקידות, "a bishopric": to "remember" them is to know, own, acknowledge, and respect them as their governors; to obey them, and submit to them; to treasure up in memory their doctrines and exhortations; to be mindful of them at the throne of grace, to pray for them; and to take care of their maintenance and outward supply of life:

who have spoken unto you the word of God; of which God is the author, being agreeably to the Scriptures, given by inspiration of God; the subject of which is the love and grace of God in Christ; and which God makes useful for conversion and comfort; and which, when spoken aright, is spoken freely, boldly, and faithfully:

whose faith follow; or "imitate"; meaning either their faithfulness, by owning the truths and ordinances of the Gospel before men; by reproving fellow Christians in love; by discharging the several duties of their place in the church; and by performing the private duties of life: or the grace of faith, their strong exercise of it, together with its fruits and effects, love, and good works; also the profession of their faith, which they hold fast unto the end; and the doctrine of faith, by embracing the same, as it appears agreeably to the word; by abiding by it, standing fast in it, striving for it, and persevering in it to the end.

Considering the end of their conversation; which may intend the whole of their conduct in the discharge of the several duties of their office; the end of which designs either the manner of it, as De Dieu explains it, agreeably to the sense of the Hebrew word, תוצאות in Psa_68:20 or the drift and scope of it, which was Christ, his honour and glory, as in connection with the following verse; or the event of it in life, being for the glory of God, and the good of men; or rather the issue of it in death, or what a comfortable end they made; and so the Ethiopic version renders it, "considering" their "last manner of living, in their exit out of the world"; and this is to be considered for imitation and encouragement.

I would have to come down on the side of Gill my hero.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
OZZY said:
Who is this verse referring to?

7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation

And who is this refering to?

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have ONE teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have ONE Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have ONE instructor, the Christ.

“You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all."

1st non answer
 
bgwilkinson said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
bgwilkinson said:
This is exactly why Jesus is the head of the body.  Not the Baptist pope.

I don't know what that means in this context....you understand the concept of a LOCAL church, don't you?

Jesus is the head of every local assembly, not the Pastor or Elders, they are at more under sheppards, not overlords.

OK....but I still don't see what that has any negative bearing on Hunt's proposition.
Under shepherds are exactly the leaders Hunt was referring to.....
 
OZZY said:
Smellin Coffee said:
OZZY said:
Who is this verse referring to?

7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation

And who is this refering to?

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have ONE teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have ONE Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have ONE instructor, the Christ.

“You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all."

1st non answer

True...but he quoted Gill while not answering.... ;D
 
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