Mark Driscoll on two Christians living (and sleeping) together!

[Tarheel Baptist]

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/videos-for-pastors/158643-2-christians-living-and-sleeping-together.html

Too harsh?
Not strong enough?
Just right?

 

[Ransom]

As long as he was saying, "Be tough and confront them, because God hates fornicators," he was spot on.

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

As long as he was saying, "Be tough and confront them, because God hates fornicators," he was spot on.

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler

 

[ALAYMAN]

I think he should have said "whatever they hand finds to do, do it with all they might".












On a more serious note, I thought it was pretty spot on.

 

[Ransom]

I think that if a Christian deliberately chooses to disobey God, that technically constitutes idolatry. Choosing sin over Obedience to God.

When someone claims that committing sin X puts Y (related somehow to X) in the place of God and we are therefore worshiping Y, the biblical distinction between idolatry and non-idolatry becomes meaningless.

When God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," he meant gods, not abstract principles.

 

[Bob H]

Did he cuss in it?

 

[Mick]

I think that if a Christian deliberately chooses to disobey God, that technically constitutes idolatry. Choosing sin over Obedience to God.

When someone claims that committing sin X puts Y (related somehow to X) in the place of God and we are therefore worshiping Y, the biblical distinction between idolatry and non-idolatry becomes meaningless.

When God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," he meant gods, not abstract principles.

Fabricum Idolarum

and covetousness, which is idolatry- Colossians 3.5

that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater)- eph 5.5

Beloved children, keep yourselves from idols

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think that if a Christian deliberately chooses to disobey God, that technically constitutes idolatry. Choosing sin over Obedience to God.

When someone claims that committing sin X puts Y (related somehow to X) in the place of God and we are therefore worshiping Y, the biblical distinction between idolatry and non-idolatry becomes meaningless.

When God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," he meant gods, not abstract principles.

In Col 3:5, Paul specifically calls fornication (among other things) idolatry.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

It seems to me that, in our current cultural atmosphere, this subject is one which almost all churches will be confronted with, at some point in time.
"Living together" is commonplace today and is another sin that has been mainstreamed as acceptable behaviour...in fact it is the new norm of society.
This is immorality and the church must deal with it.....preferably before faced with a real life situation in the congregation.

IMHO, the church should always act Scripturally when confronted with sin and sinful situations and not react emotionally.

 

[Ransom]

In Col 3:5, Paul specifically calls fornication (among other things) idolatry.

OK, didn't think of that passage, so I stand corrected.

However, in his catalogue of sins in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, he says "neither the sexual immoral, nor idolators"; in other words, he draws a distinction between idolatory and the other things.  Is it not more likely that he is speaking figuratively in Colossians?  I don't think Paul meant to say (as Driscoll did) that committing sins is literally the worship of another deity.

 

[christundivided]

I think that if a Christian deliberately chooses to disobey God, that technically constitutes idolatry. Choosing sin over Obedience to God.

When someone claims that committing sin X puts Y (related somehow to X) in the place of God and we are therefore worshiping Y, the biblical distinction between idolatry and non-idolatry becomes meaningless.

When God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," he meant gods, not abstract principles.

In Col 3:5, Paul specifically calls fornication (among other things) idolatry.

I don't know what bible you're reading but the good old King James.... says "covetousness" is as Idolatry. Not fornication.

Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

 

[brianb]

I don't think any two people would be comfortable with Mark Driscoll on them.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think that if a Christian deliberately chooses to disobey God, that technically constitutes idolatry. Choosing sin over Obedience to God.

When someone claims that committing sin X puts Y (related somehow to X) in the place of God and we are therefore worshiping Y, the biblical distinction between idolatry and non-idolatry becomes meaningless.

When God said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," he meant gods, not abstract principles.

In Col 3:5, Paul specifically calls fornication (among other things) idolatry.

I don't know what bible you're reading but the good old King James.... says "covetousness" is as Idolatry. Not fornication.

Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

I would respectfully disagree with your hermeneutic.
The Amplified:
So kill (deaden, [a]deprive of power) the evil desire lurking in your members [those animal impulses and all that is earthly in you that is employed in sin]: sexual vice, impurity, sensual appetites, unholy desires, and all greed and covetousness, for that is idolatry (the deifying of self and other created things instead of God).

The evil desire lurking in your members  (which he then lists).....is idolatry.

IMHHO
In my humble hermeneutical opinion.

   

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

In Col 3:5, Paul specifically calls fornication (among other things) idolatry.

OK, didn't think of that passage, so I stand corrected.

However, in his catalogue of sins in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, he says "neither the sexual immoral, nor idolators"; in other words, he draws a distinction between idolatory and the other things.  Is it not more likely that he is speaking figuratively in Colossians?  I don't think Paul meant to say (as Driscoll did) that committing sins is literally the worship of another deity.

Perhaps not, but I believe the comparison can be legitimately made.

Driscoll does go somewhat to the extreme in naming idolatry...I have heard him say that, in America, our god is our belly and that's why we have so many restaurants.

 

[Winston]

In Col 3:5, Paul specifically calls fornication (among other things) idolatry.

OK, didn't think of that passage, so I stand corrected.

However, in his catalogue of sins in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, he says "neither the sexual immoral, nor idolators"; in other words, he draws a distinction between idolatory and the other things.  Is it not more likely that he is speaking figuratively in Colossians?  I don't think Paul meant to say (as Driscoll did) that committing sins is literally the worship of another deity.

Perhaps not, but I believe the comparison can be legitimately made.

Driscoll does go somewhat to the extreme in naming idolatry...I have heard him say that, in America, our god is our belly and that's why we have so many restaurants.

That sounds about right for you Americans.

 

[christundivided]

I would respectfully disagree with your hermeneutic.
The Amplified:
So kill (deaden, [a]deprive of power) the evil desire lurking in your members [those animal impulses and all that is earthly in you that is employed in sin]: sexual vice, impurity, sensual appetites, unholy desires, and all greed and covetousness, for that is idolatry (the deifying of self and other created things instead of God).

The evil desire lurking in your members  (which he then lists).....is idolatry.

IMHHO
In my humble hermeneutical opinion.  

I'm going to tell your members you're using the "amplified" version

All the critical hermeneutics in the world won't get you past the "grammatical construct" of the statement.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I would respectfully disagree with your hermeneutic.
The Amplified:
So kill (deaden, [a]deprive of power) the evil desire lurking in your members [those animal impulses and all that is earthly in you that is employed in sin]: sexual vice, impurity, sensual appetites, unholy desires, and all greed and covetousness, for that is idolatry (the deifying of self and other created things instead of God).

The evil desire lurking in your members  (which he then lists).....is idolatry.

IMHHO
In my humble hermeneutical opinion.  

I'm going to tell your members you're using the "amplified" version

All the critical hermeneutics in the world won't get you past the "grammatical construct" of the statement.

I'm not abusing the syntactic template in the Greek or the English!

 

[christundivided]

Now one of us is.... maybe if you tell me why I am... .then maybe you'll understand why you are...

We can't both be right.

 

[Ransom]

CU said:

I don't know what bible you're reading but the good old King James.... says "covetousness" is as Idolatry. Not fornication.

It's ambiguous. Coming at the end of a list, is it talking about the last thing on the list, or the whole list collectively?  Rearranging the punctuation slightly:

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you---sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness---which is idolatry.

It still makes as much sense.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Now one of us is.... maybe if you tell me why I am... .then maybe you'll understand why you are...

We can't both be right.

"Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry". (NASV)

Paul moves backward from the 'evil act' to the motive....immorality comes from impurity...comes from perverted passion/evil desire..which comes from the root sin of greed or covetousness.
Paul listed greed last because it is the root cause from which the previous sins come.
It is also last in the 10 Commandments.
Greed Pleonexia - to have more.

Paul also associates sexual immorality, covetousness and idolatry in Ephesians 5:3-5.
Deut. 25:1-3 also links Israel's sin of idolatry with sexual sin...as does the incident with the Golden Calf.