How many conversions have you witnessed....

[ALAYMAN]

since you've been on the forum?


No, I'm not asking how many people you've led to the Lord, but rather how many people have you seen converted from their manner of worship (or denomination)?  For instance, Timothy is the latest former-fundy to join the land of the FREEEEEEEEEEE!  I can see it coming from a mile away.  People come here looking for answers and are somewhat easily swayed by pseudo-arguments and people who assert their dogma with forceable authority and sophisticated rhetoric.  Next thing ya know they go from one side of the playground to the other.  I'd venture I've seen such slow progressions and evolutions on the magnitude of the dozens.  I find such episodes more than a bit fascinating, kinda like  Tyson chumming it up in a business venture with Holyfield, or if Bird would have switched over to the Lakers, or Woody would've hugged Bo.  How bout you?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

since you've been on the forum?


No, I'm not asking how many people you've led to the Lord, but rather how many people have you seen converted from their manner of worship (or denomination)?  For instance, Timothy is the latest former-fundy to join the land of the FREEEEEEEEEEE!  I can see it coming from a mile away.  People come here looking for answers and are somewhat easily swayed by pseudo-arguments and people who assert their dogma with forceable authority and sophisticated rhetoric.  Next thing ya know they go from one side of the playground to the other.  I'd venture I've seen such slow progressions and evolutions on the magnitude of the dozens.  I find such episodes more than a bit fascinating, kinda like  Tyson chumming it up in a business venture with Holyfield, or if Bird would have switched over to the Celtics, or Woody would've hugged Bo.  How bout you?

I've seen a few.....but, while I probably have more in common with the Freebirds than I do the Fundamentalists, I think it goes to Evangelical Political Correctness....everyone wants to seem reasonable and unbiased....it's like political conservatives seeking acceptance in the mainstream media.

IMHO, there's hypocrisy and double standards on both sides of the fence. But the Freebirds claim that's what they dislike in the fundys....which hinders me from getting my Freebird MembershipCard and decoder ring!

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I've seen a few.....but, while I probably have more in common with the Freebirds than I do the Fundamentalists, I think it goes to Evangelical Political Correctness....everyone wants to seem reasonable and unbiased....it's like political conservatives seeking acceptance in the mainstream media.

IMHO, there's hypocrisy and double standards on both sides of the fence. But the Freebirds claim that's what they dislike in the fundys....which hinders me from getting my Freebird MembershipCard and decoder ring!
[/quote]


Heyyyyyy, aren't/weren't you considering joining the SBC?  Such a Falwell clone, and ardent politically correct enthusiast ain't ya?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I've seen a few.....but, while I probably have more in common with the Freebirds than I do the Fundamentalists, I think it goes to Evangelical Political Correctness....everyone wants to seem reasonable and unbiased....it's like political conservatives seeking acceptance in the mainstream media.

IMHO, there's hypocrisy and double standards on both sides of the fence. But the Freebirds claim that's what they dislike in the fundys....which hinders me from getting my Freebird MembershipCard and decoder ring!

Heyyyyyy, aren't/weren't you considering joining the SBC?  Such a Falwell clone, and ardent politically correct enthusiast ain't ya?


[/quote]


We are indeed moving toward joining the SBC.
Basically we (our church) have nothing in common with IFBs and as we look to the future,believe joining with the SBC gives us a support system, sadly lacking in IFB circles!


We're the same as we have been for 30 years......

 

[T-Bone]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I've seen a few.....but, while I probably have more in common with the Freebirds than I do the Fundamentalists, I think it goes to Evangelical Political Correctness....everyone wants to seem reasonable and unbiased....it's like political conservatives seeking acceptance in the mainstream media.

IMHO, there's hypocrisy and double standards on both sides of the fence. But the Freebirds claim that's what they dislike in the fundys....which hinders me from getting my Freebird MembershipCard and decoder ring!

Heyyyyyy, aren't/weren't you considering joining the SBC?  Such a Falwell clone, and ardent politically correct enthusiast ain't ya?

We are indeed moving toward joining the SBC.
Basically we (our church) have nothing in common with IFBs and as we look to the future,believe joining with the SBC gives us a support system, sadly lacking in IFB circles!


We're the same as we have been for 30 years......
[/quote]

Then maybe you could join me in educating the great uninformed in the IFB movement that every SBC church is just as independent and autonomous as any of them are.  No one tells the local SBC church what to do, teach, or how much money to give to support any SBC cause.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I've seen a few.....but, while I probably have more in common with the Freebirds than I do the Fundamentalists, I think it goes to Evangelical Political Correctness....everyone wants to seem reasonable and unbiased....it's like political conservatives seeking acceptance in the mainstream media.

IMHO, there's hypocrisy and double standards on both sides of the fence. But the Freebirds claim that's what they dislike in the fundys....which hinders me from getting my Freebird MembershipCard and decoder ring!

Heyyyyyy, aren't/weren't you considering joining the SBC?  Such a Falwell clone, and ardent politically correct enthusiast ain't ya?

We are indeed moving toward joining the SBC.
Basically we (our church) have nothing in common with IFBs and as we look to the future,believe joining with the SBC gives us a support system, sadly lacking in IFB circles!


We're the same as we have been for 30 years......

Then maybe you could join me in educating the great uninformed in the IFB movement that every SBC church is just as independent and autonomous as any of them are.  No one tells the local SBC church what to do, teach, or how much money to give to support any SBC cause.
[/quote]

That is absolutely true!

We've met with a number of people in the SBC office and asked them a gazillion questions.
Basically, the SBC is there if you want or need them, but has no power, authority or vote in the local congregation in any way.
You join by agreeing to their doctrinal statement...which is exactly the same as our 30 year old IFB congregation and you send them a check.....of any amount.....no minimum amount!

The SBC has the third largest relief organization in the US....behind the Red Cross and Salvation Army!

 

[T-Bone]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I've seen a few.....but, while I probably have more in common with the Freebirds than I do the Fundamentalists, I think it goes to Evangelical Political Correctness....everyone wants to seem reasonable and unbiased....it's like political conservatives seeking acceptance in the mainstream media.

IMHO, there's hypocrisy and double standards on both sides of the fence. But the Freebirds claim that's what they dislike in the fundys....which hinders me from getting my Freebird MembershipCard and decoder ring!

Heyyyyyy, aren't/weren't you considering joining the SBC?  Such a Falwell clone, and ardent politically correct enthusiast ain't ya?

We are indeed moving toward joining the SBC.
Basically we (our church) have nothing in common with IFBs and as we look to the future,believe joining with the SBC gives us a support system, sadly lacking in IFB circles!


We're the same as we have been for 30 years......

Then maybe you could join me in educating the great uninformed in the IFB movement that every SBC church is just as independent and autonomous as any of them are.  No one tells the local SBC church what to do, teach, or how much money to give to support any SBC cause.

That is absolutely true!

We've met with a number of people in the SBC office and asked them a gazillion questions.
Basically, the SBC is there if you want or need them, but has no power, authority or vote in the local congregation in any way.
You join by agreeing to their doctrinal statement...which is exactly the same as our 30 year old IFB congregation and you send them a check.....of any amount.....no minimum amount!

The SBC has the third largest relief organization in the US....behind the Red Cross and Salvation Army!
[/quote]

Yes we do...and in every tragic event they are there on site.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Including Uncle Ben's rice?

 

[JrChurch]

Tarheel, I had no clue that your church is IFB.  Interesting.

 

[T-Bone]

I believe I saw Frag the other day wearing a black sock and a navy blue sock....hey its a start!

 

[Miller]

I would be one of those who made the change. I am still a Fundamentalist and I am still a Baptist, I am just no longer IFBx. The change occurred not because of the forum, but in spite of it. Read my early posts from the other forum and see where I defended standards, KJVO, and etc. I had been struggling with being an IFBx for several years, but I guess that the straw that broke the camel's back was a message that was preached by my HAC graduate, IFBx pastor. I would send him a  thank you card, but I don't think it would make his day. Unbeknownst to him, he made such a compelling argument for the doctrines of grace that I simply had to study them for myself once again. This time however the God spoke to my heart and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.

I will admit that after settling the basics for myself I did reach out to Dr. Bob to help me with some of the finer points. We had several e-mail exchanges and he helped me tremendously. Do I agree with Dr. Bob on everything he says? No. but I am glad to count him as a friend. I am also glad that he did not hold a grudge when I reached out to him for help. He was understanding and compassionate, and for that I am very appreciative.

 

[Izdaari]

Well, I personally have changed from Assemblies of God to Episcopalutheran (with both TEC & ELCA affiliations) since I began posting. But my theology didn't change, I just found a church that was more compatible with it.

Possibly I was IFB when I was 12. My church then was GARBC, and Dr. Bob says that qualifies as IFB. If so, it was very sane IFB without the extremist tendencies, a pretty good church. But I haven't been Baptist since then. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I would be one of those who made the change.

I had you in mind as well when I wrote the OP. I don't think you fall into the "easily tossed too and fro" crowd.  I considered making the OP a "list" of those current posters who met the criteria, as well as past ones, but in the end decided against naming names, lol.  But in the broader analysis of things you fall under the umbrella of people who were impacted by the gurus of the forum, as Dr Bob certainly was considered as such by many.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Well, I personally have changed from Assemblies of God to Episcopalutheran (with both TEC & ELCA affiliations) since I began posting. But my theology didn't change, I just found a church that was more compatible with it.

Well, you know I don't agree with quite a bit of your flavor of beliefs, particularly the notion of women clergy, but I applaud your integrity for finding a church where your belief structure could be accomodated, which is much better than staying around and trying to undermine the mission and covenant of your former assembly.

 

[Miller]

I would be one of those who made the change.

I had you in mind as well when I wrote the OP. I don't think you fall into the "easily tossed too and fro" crowd.  I considered making the OP a "list" of those current posters who met the criteria, as well as past ones, but in the end decided against naming names, lol.  But in the broader analysis of things you fall under the umbrella of people who were impacted by the gurus of the forum, as Dr Bob certainly was considered as such by many.

Actually, believe it or not, Dr. Bob was not instrumental in the beginnings of my theological change. As I said, my displeasure with the IFBx began many years ago, back in 2002. We had moved to a new city, and went through several IFBx churches and none seemed right. That is when I first became disillusioned with IFBx. This disillusionment happened before I ever became involved with Don's forum in 2005 some months before Katrina hit. For several years (seven) I stayed in the IFBx church and went through the motions.  Truly, I did not want to change. I argued with God many, many times as I did not want to believe what He was showing me from His Word.

Finally in early 2009 my IFBx pastor preached a salvation message and mentioned that we are spiritually dead before salvation. For some reason that caused me to look at Calvinism again, only without my preconceived notions. I began to see the truth of it and I spent many hours arguing with God. I hated what He was showing me. I did not want it to be true. It contradicted everything that I had been taught and taught to others. Finally I surrendered. It was only after that I reached out to Dr. Bob with questions on some of the finer points of Calvinism. I still have the e-mail exchanges we had. After discussing things with Dr. Bob we found a Calvinistic Baptist church to attend and the pastor and I spent many hours discussing theology.

So while Dr. Bob did help me nail down some aspects of the doctrines of grace, he was not instrumental in my changing direction.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I would be one of those who made the change. I am still a Fundamentalist and I am still a Baptist, I am just no longer IFBx. The change occurred not because of the forum, but in spite of it. Read my early posts from the other forum and see where I defended standards, KJVO, and etc. I had been struggling with being an IFBx for several years, but I guess that the straw that broke the camel's back was a message that was preached by my HAC graduate, IFBx pastor. I would send him a  thank you card, but I don't think it would make his day. Unbeknownst to him, he made such a compelling argument for the doctrines of grace that I simply had to study them for myself once again. This time however the God spoke to my heart and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.

I will admit that after settling the basics for myself I did reach out to Dr. Bob to help me with some of the finer points. We had several e-mail exchanges and he helped me tremendously. Do I agree with Dr. Bob on everything he says? No. but I am glad to count him as a friend. I am also glad that he did not hold a grudge when I reached out to him for help. He was understanding and compassionate, and for that I am very appreciative.

I didnt know your story until today...but we share some similarities.
I was introduced to the doctrines of grace as a Freshman in college and was convinced of their truthfulness by my Junior year. I transferred to Liberty in my Sophomore year...and was never a part of the 'extreme' IFB movement....my home IFB church was not KJVO or no pants on women, for instance. I have been pretty consistent in what I believe since seminary....although my methodology has changed somewhat.

The reason for our move toward the SBC is one of moving toward fellowship with like minded churches. I find that our church philosophy and methodology, not to mention theology fits nicely with many, if not most SBC churches. I am the only lead Pastor our church has ever known, and I'm planning toward retirement....transition in the next 6-8 years, Lord willing. I believe the SBC offers the best support and encouragement for our church moving forward.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Tarheel, I had no clue that your church is IFB.  Interesting.

Why is that 'interesting'?

 

[Miller]

I would be one of those who made the change. I am still a Fundamentalist and I am still a Baptist, I am just no longer IFBx. The change occurred not because of the forum, but in spite of it. Read my early posts from the other forum and see where I defended standards, KJVO, and etc. I had been struggling with being an IFBx for several years, but I guess that the straw that broke the camel's back was a message that was preached by my HAC graduate, IFBx pastor. I would send him a  thank you card, but I don't think it would make his day. Unbeknownst to him, he made such a compelling argument for the doctrines of grace that I simply had to study them for myself once again. This time however the God spoke to my heart and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.

I will admit that after settling the basics for myself I did reach out to Dr. Bob to help me with some of the finer points. We had several e-mail exchanges and he helped me tremendously. Do I agree with Dr. Bob on everything he says? No. but I am glad to count him as a friend. I am also glad that he did not hold a grudge when I reached out to him for help. He was understanding and compassionate, and for that I am very appreciative.

I didnt know your story until today...but we share some similarities.
I was introduced to the doctrines of grace as a Freshman in college and was convinced of their truthfulness by my Junior year. I transferred to Liberty in my Sophomore year...and was never a part of the 'extreme' IFB movement....my home IFB church was not KJVO or no pants on women, for instance. I have been pretty consistent in what I believe since seminary....although my methodology has changed somewhat.

The reason for our move toward the SBC is one of moving toward fellowship with like minded churches. I find that our church philosophy and methodology, not to mention theology fits nicely with many, if not most SBC churches. I am the only lead Pastor our church has ever known, and I'm planning toward retirement....transition in the next 6-8 years, Lord willing. I believe the SBC offers the best support and encouragement for our church moving forward.

I will be praying for your church during this time of transition. May God give you and your people wisdom. Years ago I would have called you a reprobate. No offense to you T-Bone.

 

[Izdaari]

Well, I personally have changed from Assemblies of God to Episcopalutheran (with both TEC & ELCA affiliations) since I began posting. But my theology didn't change, I just found a church that was more compatible with it.

Well, you know I don't agree with quite a bit of your flavor of beliefs, particularly the notion of women clergy, but I applaud your integrity for finding a church where your belief structure could be accomodated, which is much better than staying around and trying to undermine the mission and covenant of your former assembly.

Thanks!  ;D

That's actually a more positive response than I expected from anybody here.  :-*

I never especially tried to change my AG church. It is what it is, and what it is is conservative evangelical, which I gradually came to realize I am most emphatically not, particularly with regard to culture and politics. I remain creedally orthodox and continuationist, and I suppose I'm still broadly compatible with AG theology.

But after the Santorum phenomenon and all the support it got from conservative evangelicals, I was kinda revolted by the thought of even remaining associated with the movement. I took that as my cue to exist stage left, and practice separation from dominionists, theonomists and any other flavors of borderline theocrats. I was actually worried that my new church might be too liberal theologically -- as in not orthodox -- and if that had been the case, I would've looked for somewhere else to move to.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Izdaari I never especially tried to change my AG church. It is what it is, and what it is is conservative evangelical, which I gradually came to realize I am most emphatically not, particularly with regard to culture and politics. I remain creedally orthodox and continuationist, and I suppose I'm still broadly compatible with AG theology.

But after the Santorum phenomenon and all the support it got from conservative evangelicals, I was kinda revolted by the thought of even remaining associated with the movement. I took that as my cue to exist stage left, and practice separation from dominionists, theonomists and any other flavors of borderline theocrats. I was actually worried that my new church might be too liberal theologically -- as in not orthodox -- and if that had been the case, I would've looked for somewhere else to move to.
[/quote]

Though there is often too much politics wrapped up in the pulpit of evangelical churches there are still plenty of Bible-believing conservative churches that understand that the main emphasis of the church is to be the glory of God and the equipping of the saints to minister the gospel, leaving political action to it's properly relegated more private sphere.  In other words, I don't think that such political entanglement by the"movement" should be used as justification for leaving an individual church that is not distracted in such a manner.