Homosexuality and abortion are wrong - politically, morally and Biblically!

Tarheel Baptist

Well-known member
Doctor
Elect
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
9,117
Reaction score
1,134
Points
113
But it seems that since these issues were identified as political issues, that we must be careful what we say about them.
And, we shouldn't align ourselves politically with those who 'oppose' these sins...that we offend some by such action!
I say BULL!

I cannot and will not support any candidate or political party that officially endorses either...i.e....the Democrats!
And the fact that abortion and gay rights are admitedly a part of their political agenda makes me their political opposite.
And, frankly, I don't understand where I'm wrong, Biblically,morally or politically.

But I'm sure someone will attempt to 'set me straight'!  8)
 
Not me! I don't agonize about there being somebody out there on the intarwebz who is wrong about something. You're a good man, and you seem pretty content with what you believe, and I got no problem with that. It really isn't essential we agree on all issues.  :-*
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
But it seems that since these issues were identified as political issues, that we must be careful what we say about them.
And, we shouldn't align ourselves politically with those who 'oppose' these sins...that we offend some by such action!
I say BULL!

I cannot and will not support any candidate or political party that officially endorses either...i.e....the Democrats!
And the fact that abortion and gay rights are admitedly a part of their political agenda makes me their political opposite.
And, frankly, I don't understand where I'm wrong, Biblically,morally or politically.

But I'm sure someone will attempt to 'set me straight'!  8)

To take Biblical and moral issues to use them to shape my political views should be how Christians engage in politics.  We should also do it fiscally as well, letting the Bible shape and guide who we vote for.
 
I'm just not a one issue voter, even when certain issues are very important to me.
 
rsc2a said:
I'm just not a one issue voter, even when certain issues are very important to me.

Likewise. Though I come closest on 2nd Amendment issues. My habits of thought as a former staff member of a gun rights organization are still with me.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
But it seems that since these issues were identified as political issues, that we must be careful what we say about them.
And, we shouldn't align ourselves politically with those who 'oppose' these sins...that we offend some by such action!
I say BULL!

I cannot and will not support any candidate or political party that officially endorses either...i.e....the Democrats!
And the fact that abortion and gay rights are admitedly a part of their political agenda makes me their political opposite.
And, frankly, I don't understand where I'm wrong, Biblically,morally or politically.

But I'm sure someone will attempt to 'set me straight'!  8)
I absolutely agree that homosexuality and abortion are wrong.

Abortion is murder and is an act of aggression against another human being. I will not support any candidate that makes light of this issue, does not believe life begins at conception, or believes that abortion should be acceptable for X weeks after conception.
Abortion should be handled the way murder is handled: the federal government sets (or clarifies) the statute, and the states handle and codify the prescriptions and consequences in compliance.

Homosexuality is an abomination to God despite what some here may attempt to argue. It goes against God's clearly established institution of marriage from the creation. It also deprives children of the benefits of the roles of mother and father. This does not mean that single parent homes are in sin, but that any female parent should be a true mother and any male parent should be a true father.
Now, as far as the legal side of this, I can find myself at odds with the theonomists at some points. I absolutely agree that we should not condone any government "recognizing" homosexual "marriage" for any reason. I would never give my support for something that flies in the face of God's clearly defined institution.
I would prefer that governments get out of the business of codifying "marriage." Marriage is a covenant union of commitment between one man and one woman in the sight of God, not necessarily a secular state. When we try to make pagans mock our sacred institution by secular law, we jeopardize the purity and testimony that we can have as salt and light in being different from the world. It takes much more effort for us to express the holiness of marriage to the world when they can claim the same status from carnality. Many in the world who get a marriage license do not even regard it for anything other than a tax benefit or claim on property rights. Many just "shack up" anyway, and many that get marriage licenses find themselves getting divorce lawyers not long afterward.
So much focus is on homosexual "marriage" when the real problem is homosexuality itself. It is not a license that God calls "an abomination," but rather the actual acts of intercourse. I, just as much as many here, would love to have homosexuality gone. The issue, then, is what is our duty as Christians to reduce it effectively. As Christians we should know that "the heart of the matter is the matter of the heart." Only God can truly change the heart of a licentious person to follow His moral law. Since the real issue is not a secular license but the actions of the heart, the best remedy is preaching the gospel and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.
Since the issue is homosexuality itself, how do we prevent this through law. The actions are private, and any preventative law would necessarily be draconian and could unduly punish someone who is not a homosexual. Laws that try to regulate consensual, personal behavior rather than deal with the effects on people in so far as they infringe on the will of others can further harden wicked hearts against God. Intrusive, draconian laws that try to regulate personal behavior can turn sinners into martyrs for their cause, further increasing their ability to turn law to their lopsided benefit. Of course, consequences of such "relationships" should be allowed to be tried in court.

I also would never support the legal ability of homosexual "couples" to adopt and rear children, as this would infringe on the rights of young children to have real parents without their ability to object.
 
Izdaari said:
rsc2a said:
I'm just not a one issue voter, even when certain issues are very important to me.

Likewise. Though I come closest on 2nd Amendment issues. My habits of thought as a former staff member of a gun rights organization are still with me.

My "big issue" would be abortion. Yet I'm also somewhat pragmatic about how I vote and would consider a candidate who was a vocal supporter of abortion if their vote on this issue wouldn't make much of a difference and I strongly aligned with them other places. It would also probably depend somewhat on how "vocal" of a supporter they were.

(Although I do believe it unlikely I would strongly align with them on other issues if we diverged so much on this one.)
 
AresMan said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
But it seems that since these issues were identified as political issues, that we must be careful what we say about them.
And, we shouldn't align ourselves politically with those who 'oppose' these sins...that we offend some by such action!
I say BULL!

I cannot and will not support any candidate or political party that officially endorses either...i.e....the Democrats!
And the fact that abortion and gay rights are admitedly a part of their political agenda makes me their political opposite.
And, frankly, I don't understand where I'm wrong, Biblically,morally or politically.

But I'm sure someone will attempt to 'set me straight'!  8)
I absolutely agree that homosexuality and abortion are wrong.

Abortion is murder and is an act of aggression against another human being. I will not support any candidate that makes light of this issue, does not believe life begins at conception, or believes that abortion should be acceptable for X weeks after conception.
Abortion should be handled the way murder is handled: the federal government sets (or clarifies) the statute, and the states handle and codify the prescriptions and consequences in compliance.

Homosexuality is an abomination to God despite what some here may attempt to argue. It goes against God's clearly established institution of marriage from the creation. It also deprives children of the benefits of the roles of mother and father. This does not mean that single parent homes are in sin, but that any female parent should be a true mother and any male parent should be a true father.
Now, as far as the legal side of this, I can find myself at odds with the theonomists at some points. I absolutely agree that we should not condone any government "recognizing" homosexual "mOarriage" for any reason. I would never give my support for something that flies in the face of God's clearly defined institution.
I would prefer that governments get out of the business of codifying "marriage." Marriage is a covenant union of commitment between one man and one woman in the sight of God, not necessarily a secular state. When we try to make pagans mock our sacred institution by secular law, we jeopardize the purity and testimony that we can have as salt and light in being different from the world. It takes much more effort for us to express the holiness of marriage to the world when they can claim the same status from carnality. Many in the world who get a marriage license do not even regard it for anything other than a tax benefit or claim on property rights. Many just "shack up" anyway, and many that get marriage licenses find themselves getting divorce lawyers not long afterward.
So much focus is on homosexual "marriage" when the real problem is homosexuality itself. It is not a license that God calls "an abomination," but rather the actual acts of intercourse. I, just as much as many here, would love to have homosexuality gone. The issue, then, is what is our duty as Christians to reduce it effectively. As Christians we should know that "the heart of the matter is the matter of the heart." Only God can truly change the heart of a licentious person to follow His moral law. Since the real issue is not a secular license but the actions of the heart, the best remedy is preaching the gospel and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.
Since the issue is homosexuality itself, how do we prevent this through law. The actions are private, and any preventative law would necessarily be draconian and could unduly punish someone who is not a homosexual. Laws that try to regulate consensual, personal behavior rather than deal with the effects on people in so far as they infringe on the will of others can further harden wicked hearts against God. Intrusive, draconian laws that try to regulate personal behavior can turn sinners into martyrs for their cause, further increasing their ability to turn law to their lopsided benefit. Of course, consequences of such "relationships" should be allowed to be tried in court.

I also would never support the legal ability of homosexual "couples" to adopt and rear children, as this would infringe on the rights of young children to have real parents without their ability to object.

I can find no point of disagreement with your statement.....maybe I should start another Liberty thread :) !

I would also like to see the government out of MANY areas of our lives...but it is what it is....

I see the future of the church as embracing a spiritual political correctness....we saw it prominently displayed here in NC during our Marriage Amendment debate.
 
rsc2a said:
Izdaari said:
rsc2a said:
I'm just not a one issue voter, even when certain issues are very important to me.

Likewise. Though I come closest on 2nd Amendment issues. My habits of thought as a former staff member of a gun rights organization are still with me.

My "big issue" would be abortion. Yet I'm also somewhat pragmatic about how I vote and would consider a candidate who was a vocal supporter of abortion if their vote on this issue wouldn't make much of a difference and I strongly aligned with them other places. It would also probably depend somewhat on how "vocal" of a supporter they were.

(Although I do believe it unlikely I would strongly align with them on other issues if we diverged so much on this one.)

The problem with pro life Democrats,like Harry Reid, is that they ultimately support abortion by doing what is best for their party. Ted Kennedy also said he was pro life personally, but he never allowed it to affect his politics.....what a joke!
 
Those evangelicals who are uncomfortable with the movement's association with the Republican Party, I ask, where are you doing politically?
The Democrats push and promote the homosexual agenda as well as abortion a.k.a. baby killing!

To say you're uncomfortable with that position is both illogical and self defeating!

Or we will end up like Ransom in Canada, paying for babies to be killed  with our tax dollars!
Did anyone mention Romney spoke at Liberty's commencement?  :)
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Those evangelicals who are uncomfortable with the movement's association with the Republican Party, I ask, where are you doing politically?
The Democrats push and promote the homosexual agenda as well as abortion a.k.a. baby killing!

To say you're uncomfortable with that position is both illogical and self defeating!

Or we will end up like Ransom in Canada, paying for babies to be killed  with our tax dollars!
Did anyone mention Romney spoke at Liberty's commencement?  :)

I was an evangelical (AoG), but I left it because of, among other reasons, evangelicalism's association with "Religious Right" culture and politics, i.e, not so much Republicanism per se, but Santorum Republicanism. Later this month, on Pentecost, I will join my new church and be confirmed as a Lutheran (ELCA).

So far as politics, I haven't changed: I still support the Libertarian Party and libertarian Republicans. If my state (WA) is actually in play this fall (unlikely, it's a reliable blue state), I'll vote for Romney because Obama needs to go. If it isn't and WA's electoral votes are going for Obama regardless, I'll vote for Gary Johnson on the LP ticket.

Going with the Democrats is not even an option. They're wrong on my biggest issues: taxes, spending, the role of government and the interpretation of the Constitution. Republicans aren't ideal on those either but they're a lot closer.
 
rsc2a said:
Izdaari said:
rsc2a said:
I'm just not a one issue voter, even when certain issues are very important to me.

Likewise. Though I come closest on 2nd Amendment issues. My habits of thought as a former staff member of a gun rights organization are still with me.

My "big issue" would be abortion. Yet I'm also somewhat pragmatic about how I vote and would consider a candidate who was a vocal supporter of abortion if their vote on this issue wouldn't make much of a difference and I strongly aligned with them other places. It would also probably depend somewhat on how "vocal" of a supporter they were.

(Although I do believe it unlikely I would strongly align with them on other issues if we diverged so much on this one.)

I think you might get along fairly well with Ron Paul or Gary Johnson on most issues.  ;D
 
We are seeing a shift in evangelicalism....away from extra Biblical methods and standards, which is fine by me to a position that exalts attitude and acceptance, tolerance over truth and sound doctrine.

Do good works, accept others as they are, after all their truth is their truth.
This is ridiculous and leads to apostasy.
This isn't where we're going, it's where we are.....  :'(
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
We are seeing a shift in evangelicalism....away from extra Biblical methods and standards, which is fine by me to a position that exalts attitude and acceptance, tolerance over truth and sound doctrine.

Do good works, accept others as they are, after all their truth is their truth.
This is ridiculous and leads to apostasy.
This isn't where we're going, it's where we are.....  :'(


"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."


 
We are seeing a shift in evangelicalism....away from extra Biblical methods and standards, which is fine by me to a position that exalts attitude and acceptance, tolerance over truth and sound doctrine.

Like Christian universities tolerating Mormons on their commencement platforms, for example? ;)
 
Ransom said:
We are seeing a shift in evangelicalism....away from extra Biblical methods and standards, which is fine by me to a position that exalts attitude and acceptance, tolerance over truth and sound doctrine.

Like Christian universities tolerating Mormons on their commencement platforms, for example? ;)


A very good example if I must say so myself


 
Ransom said:
We are seeing a shift in evangelicalism....away from extra Biblical methods and standards, which is fine by me to a position that exalts attitude and acceptance, tolerance over truth and sound doctrine.

Like Christian universities tolerating Mormons on their commencement platforms, for example? ;)

You just keep putting your loonies into the system to pay for those abortions, and stay out of politics....EH?
 
Bob H said:
Ransom said:
We are seeing a shift in evangelicalism....away from extra Biblical methods and standards, which is fine by me to a position that exalts attitude and acceptance, tolerance over truth and sound doctrine.

Like Christian universities tolerating Mormons on their commencement platforms, for example? ;)


A very good example if I must say so myself


So the Canadian and Bob, no on LUs commencement speaker.
With opposition like that Liberty is doomed!  ;D
 
Back
Top