Headin' to Landmark Baptist Haines City for Sunday services.
- Thread starter ALAYMAN
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Well, we'll miss you by a week. That's where we go when we are on vacation.
T
The Real Bob
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ALAYMAN said:
Who cares?
Ermahgerd! How fabulous! Maybe you could get a facebook account and let us know what toilet paper you bought today. Seriously! :
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JrChurch said:
Pastor Carter's son Steven preached. I was looking forward to hearing the elder Carter, but to be honest, his son preached a fanstinkingtastik message on "Who Can Stand In the Presence of God". It was far from anything remotely resembling a typical Xer sermon.
If memory serves correctly, Victory Volunteer (Tim D.) was from there, and I was hoping we would be able to meet up with some FFF folk while there, but alas it was not to be. Do you have kin or friends there?
I would be disinclined to visit any church called "Landmark" anything, because the name leads me to suspect Landmarkism. Maybe this one has no such tendencies, but if so, why the name?
http://www.gotquestions.org/landmarkism-Baptist-bride.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/landmarkism-Baptist-bride.html
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Izdaari said:
From their "Our History" page:
In 1979, First Missionary Baptist Church's name was changed to Landmark Baptist Church. This change was based upon Proverbs 22:28, "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set."
That's pretty typical of fundy-style baptist churches. I know that evokes just as much aversion in your feelings towards them as the Landmark doctrine, but they aren't "Landmarkers" in the mold of those who hold to landmarkism. There are numerous churches with Landmark in their title that wouldn't hold to that particular theological paradigm, so I'm not sure that's the best measure of determining doctrine. As usual, by looking at the sign outside the building, your mileage may vary.
As rsc2a says. And the problem I have with any hint of Landmarkism is this: any particular denomination that proclaims itself to be the One True Church is making a false, cult-like claim. That's the first test I apply when checking for a cult.
It is true of course that the sign out front is not necessarily representative of what a church actually believes. I just saw that as kind of a 'red flag'.
It is true of course that the sign out front is not necessarily representative of what a church actually believes. I just saw that as kind of a 'red flag'.
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Izdaari said:
As is often the case rsc2a is leading folk astray. The sense in which Proverbs 22:28 is invoked by most fundy churches isn't in the vain of Baptist Briders, but is a reference to separatist principles and "fundamentalist" tendencies. It has absolutely ZERO to do with making any sort of assertion of being the One True Church. That is simply either a basic misunderstanding of Indy-Fundy churches, or slander at worst. Landmarkism isn't merely able to be distilled down to a reductionistic earmark of being stuck in 50s style worship.
I'll take your word for it, since you've been there and listened to the preacher, that they aren't Baptist Briders. So far as that particular church, I'll consider them cleared of the charge. But I would always have to ask that question of any church with Landmark in the name.
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Izdaari said:
There's a church near me with Landmark (Baptist Temple in Cinci) that has long fundy roots, but has turned from that mold to a "contemporary" model. They wouldn't fit the mold. Another one very near there is also named Landmark, but are closer to being "reformed" than anything else, and their statement of beliefs, among other things, speaks to their complementary view of men and women's roles. All that to say, most Baptist churches, Landmarkism and such aside, would have much you would find disagreement with.
ALAYMAN said:Izdaari said:
There's a church near me with Landmark (Baptist Temple in Cinci) that has long fundy roots, but has turned from that mold to a "contemporary" model. They wouldn't fit the mold. Another one very near there is also named Landmark, but are closer to being "reformed" than anything else, and their statement of beliefs, among other things, speaks to their complementary view of men and women's roles. All that to say, most Baptist churches, Landmarkism and such aside, would have much you would find disagreement with.
Of course. I'm not a Baptist or a fundamentalist (I agree with the historic Five Fundamentals but as you know, it takes more than that), and complementarianism is anathema to me.
But I have no disagreement with generic Baptist distinctives; so I could be a Baptist, but it would have to be in one of the more liberal branches. And even then I'd rather not, because I prefer the liturgical style, and because I'm continuationist and believe in Real Presence (though not in transubstantiation).
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[quote author=Izdaari]But I have no disagreement with generic Baptist distinctives; so I could be a Baptist, but it would have to be in one of the more liberal branches. And even then I'd rather not, because I prefer the liturgical style, and because I'm continuationist and believe in Real Presence (though not in transubstantiation).
[/quote]
In my younger years of fundamental growth I used to watch dynamic TV preachers, as their homiletical compunction fascinated me. One such charismatic (literally and figuratively) fella was Ron Phillips. He was a continuationist. You could tell he came out of some sort of fundamentalism (as did John Hagee, James Robison, Falwell, and a host of other FORMER fundy baptists) by many of his subtle jabs at "legalists" and "pharisees" (often alluded to via some Bible-version onlyist reference). The argument over "private prayer languages" in the SBC raged not long ago as well, so the concept of Baptists who believe in continuing gifts certainly isn't completely unheard of, but, it certainly ain't within the camp of my form (and Landmark's) of fundamentalism/Christianity. To each their own though. I'm a good baptist in that way of soul liberty.
[/quote]
In my younger years of fundamental growth I used to watch dynamic TV preachers, as their homiletical compunction fascinated me. One such charismatic (literally and figuratively) fella was Ron Phillips. He was a continuationist. You could tell he came out of some sort of fundamentalism (as did John Hagee, James Robison, Falwell, and a host of other FORMER fundy baptists) by many of his subtle jabs at "legalists" and "pharisees" (often alluded to via some Bible-version onlyist reference). The argument over "private prayer languages" in the SBC raged not long ago as well, so the concept of Baptists who believe in continuing gifts certainly isn't completely unheard of, but, it certainly ain't within the camp of my form (and Landmark's) of fundamentalism/Christianity. To each their own though. I'm a good baptist in that way of soul liberty.
T
Torrent v.2
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Bob L said:ALAYMAN said:
Who cares?
Ermahgerd! How fabulous! Maybe you could get a facebook account and let us know what toilet paper you bought today. Seriously! :
Bwhahahhaha, Alameman doesn't use toilet paper.
We have visited Landmark for 25 years. Tim D is from that church as is a former FFFer. Pastor Mickey Carter taught a great adult SS class and we enjoyed the morning service, too.
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JrChurch said:
Glad to hear you had a blessed Lord's day.
We had our 45th Anniversary Celebration with dinner on the grounds. Our founding pastor brought the early afternoon message. A good time was had by all, and we are most blessed to be a part of a good Bible-believing church. The only bad thing was that ALAYWIFE was unable to be in church today due to flu-like illness.
Pastor Mickey Carter preached this evening. So good!
Will pray for the sweet Mrs. to feel better soon.
Will pray for the sweet Mrs. to feel better soon.
ALAYMAN said:In my younger years of fundamental growth I used to watch dynamic TV preachers, as their homiletical compunction fascinated me. One such charismatic (literally and figuratively) fella was Ron Phillips. He was a continuationist. You could tell he came out of some sort of fundamentalism (as did John Hagee, James Robison, Falwell, and a host of other FORMER fundy baptists) by many of his subtle jabs at "legalists" and "pharisees" (often alluded to via some Bible-version onlyist reference). The argument over "private prayer languages" in the SBC raged not long ago as well, so the concept of Baptists who believe in continuing gifts certainly isn't completely unheard of, but, it certainly ain't within the camp of my form (and Landmark's) of fundamentalism/Christianity. To each their own though. I'm a good baptist in that way of soul liberty.
Odd you should mention him. His church is less than 2 miles from my office. It used to be a conservative SBC church with 2-3000 members. Ron Phillips had a change of heart, embraced the health and wealth gospel, and told anyone who didn't like it to leave. They became Abba's House and built a $17,000,000 building. All of that followed a sex scandal (while still conservative SBC) that saw their youth pastor go to prison for molesting young men in the youth group. I don't know if the scandal caused Ron Phillips to question the foundation of the church and take it in a different direction or not. It does look that way from the outside.
None of that has anything to do with the OP. I just find it an interesting story. Many of the people who left consider Ron Phillips an abusive dictator, while many who are there now consider him a pillar of the faith. Just like the endless arguments on these forums about certain pastors and the institutions they created/spearheaded.
C
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Bob L said:ALAYMAN said:
Who cares?
Ermahgerd! How fabulous! Maybe you could get a facebook account and let us know what toilet paper you bought today. Seriously! :
I can't find it now, but there's a great graphic that says, "Good thing there's Facebook, otherwise I'd have to call 483 people to let them know I'm ready for bed, now."