God and Time
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christundivided
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Evidence anyone?
I believe God created everything out of nothing just as the Scripture teaches. To me everything means everything including time & space. God is eternal and by definition is not restricted to either time or space, they are His creations. In the matter of time, I believe the incarnation is when God stepped into time and space and made Himself subject to it.
It is like when the little one asked me one time, "Where did God come from?" and my answer was, "God did not come from nowhere, for if He came from somewhere then somewhere existed before God". Time is the same for me, there is nothing that exists that does not owe its existence to God...we know Time exists and thus must have had a starting point, therefore God created time and thus cannot be time.
Just my thoughts...blessings!
It is like when the little one asked me one time, "Where did God come from?" and my answer was, "God did not come from nowhere, for if He came from somewhere then somewhere existed before God". Time is the same for me, there is nothing that exists that does not owe its existence to God...we know Time exists and thus must have had a starting point, therefore God created time and thus cannot be time.
Just my thoughts...blessings!
C
christundivided
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T-Bone said:
Thanks brother. I'd say that is a pretty traditional understanding of time. Yet, when I really sit down and tried to justify that understanding. I couldn't. I had to form my own conclusion based on the evidence. I can say I disagree with you but I don't believe your view is heretical nor do I feel it separates us from fellowship as believers in Christ. I just believe its not technically accurate.
To me, Time has always existed. Usually when I try to discuss this, its difficult to get people to see the various facets of time. They immediately jump to the conclusion that because I believe time is a characteristic of God, I must believe that God changes. Which is not what I believe. I believe that God is Eternal. God will never cease to exist and He has never needed change. He is above change. He is altogether lovely and perfect. He lacks NOTHING. Yet, just because the progression of time involves change among us. Its does not mean the progression of time affects God in the same manner.
At its very core, time is nothing more than sequence. Cause and effect. There is no need to get into the various ways we measure time. God is cause and He creates effect. Eternity is not the absence of time. It is the endless measure of time. Eternity even has sequence. I believe I can prove this.
If you lose "sequence". Cause and effect, you have nothing but chaos. Let me use an example.
Let's say that we have the sequence of 1234. At the moment, we are currently at sequence 4. I would ask the question, what has changed about 123 just because we are 4? In fact, 123 still exists and in the grand schema of divine providence. They can not change. They are changeless.
For a biblical example, when Christ said
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Christ made a definitive statement in which He declares his Eternal existence. Yet, this declaration was uttered within time and it referenced a specific point in time before His incarnation. It also carried the emphatic declaration of "I Am". This declaration places the Eternal God existing every present throughout all of existence. Nothing about the statement will ever change. There is a before and an after. They do not cease to exist even in the Eternal.
I hope that explains my position just a little bit. Got to run for the moment.
Gotcha...I understand what you are saying, and in a real way from our perspective it fits very well,because we are restricted in our understanding, thus we have the reality of time and space and can only imagine a reality without either...God is not so restricted and in Him there is no possibility of chaos, and that lack of chaos is not based on the existence of time, but on the existence of God.
BTW--I too, would never elevated a person's desire to try and work this out, and even their understanding of it to the level of heresy...to me that is over-reaching. I believe it is good for brothers to consider these things that none of us know for sure!
Blessings on your day!
BTW--I too, would never elevated a person's desire to try and work this out, and even their understanding of it to the level of heresy...to me that is over-reaching. I believe it is good for brothers to consider these things that none of us know for sure!
Blessings on your day!
T
Timothy
Guest
Sometimes the subject of God is in Time - but, I doubt God is actually in Time often. His followers are in Time from time to time. I would say he is outside of Time generally.
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I believe God is outside of "time" as we know and understand it to be. We look at time as a second, minute, hour, day, week, etc. God is in the beginning and the end at the same time. I think the time that is related to God is outside any human understanding.
God is omni-present in both time and space.
His exists in a perpetual present tense ("...I AM..."). Our history is present tense with God; our future is present tense with God; our present is present tense with God.
One of the easiest ways for me to understand it is through the simple question "What is God doing today?" The answer? Anything that ever happened, is happening, or will happen is what God is doing today.
His exists in a perpetual present tense ("...I AM..."). Our history is present tense with God; our future is present tense with God; our present is present tense with God.
One of the easiest ways for me to understand it is through the simple question "What is God doing today?" The answer? Anything that ever happened, is happening, or will happen is what God is doing today.
Isaiah 57:15 (KJV)
15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
God inhabits eternity. He is not a time traveler, but a time exister. You cannot go -- past, present or future -- where he does not dwell.
15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
God inhabits eternity. He is not a time traveler, but a time exister. You cannot go -- past, present or future -- where he does not dwell.