Exodus International disavows therapy to "cure" homosexuality

[ALAYMAN]

MINNEAPOLIS

 

[Izdaari]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

 

[OZZY]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

That statement is true about all sinners most will not change and repent and be born again .Most sinners will die in thEre sins and burn forever in a sea of fire. but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to win the lost. Be they sodomites or liars,fornicators ect ect 

 

[ALAYMAN]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

Please explain what you mean when you say "it can't".  What is "it"?

 

[Izdaari]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

Please explain what you mean when you say "it can't".  What is "it"?

This is "it": "... the idea that gay people's sexual orientation can be permanently changed or "cured.""

 

[rsc2a]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

Please explain what you mean when you say "it can't".  What is "it"?

This is "it": "... the idea that gay people's sexual orientation can be permanently changed or "cured.""

You know I might actually buy that argument as soon as the people arguing for it themselves stop suffering from sinful temptation.

 

[OZZY]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

Please explain what you mean when you say "it can't".  What is "it"?

This is "it": "... the idea that gay people's sexual orientation can be permanently changed or "cured.""

All sin can be permanently 'cured' by the blood of the lamb.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=OZZY]
All sin can be permanently 'cured' by the blood of the lamb.
[/quote]

As true as this statement is, Izzy has a point.  Until we receive our glorified bodies, we'll all have vestiges of that "old man" that haunts us.  The particular kind of ghosts differ from person to person, and the degree to which they summons and tempt us varies, but the reality is that the besetting sins and "flesh" will be nigh ever present this side of glory.  The concept of "cure" should be substituted with, maybe, ummm, remission.

 

[Izdaari]

With most, it really can't. There may be some small percentage that it works for.

Please explain what you mean when you say "it can't".  What is "it"?

This is "it": "... the idea that gay people's sexual orientation can be permanently changed or "cured.""

All sin can be permanently 'cured' by the blood of the lamb.

It can, in the sense that because of the Atonement, our sins are "cast as far as the East is from the West". But still, not one of us ever makes it through a day without sinning.

Otherwise, what Alayman said. You may convince a gay person to be celibate. But you can't change who a person is sexually attracted to. It's not a choice, it's who they are, maybe a little bit nurture but mostly nature, i.e. genetically hardwired. The small percentage who can be changed that way were probably the ones who were never really gay in the first place, but merely thought they were.

 

[OZZY]

[quote author=OZZY]
All sin can be permanently 'cured' by the blood of the lamb.

As true as this statement is, Izzy has a point.  Until we receive our glorified bodies, we'll all have vestiges of that "old man" that haunts us.  The particular kind of ghosts differ from person to person, and the degree to which they summons and tempt us varies, but the reality is that the besetting sins and "flesh" will be nigh ever present this side of glory.  The concept of "cure" should be substituted with, maybe, ummm, remission.
[/quote]

Just as some are 'hardwired' to steal, fornicators, murder ect ect all are 'hardwired to sin,
2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



IN CHRIST

Old things are passed way

 

[ALAYMAN]

It's not a choice, it's who they are, maybe a little bit nurture but mostly nature, i.e. genetically hardwired. The small percentage who can be changed that way were probably the ones who were never really gay in the first place, but merely thought they were.

Well, not that it's going to change your mind or break your heart, but I can't go so far as to make dogmatic declarations as you have above.  The jury is still out on whether there's a gay gene, and to assert otherwise is misinformed, agenda-based, or foolish.

[quote author=OZZY]

Just as some are 'hardwired' to steal, fornicators, murder ect ect all are 'hardwired to sin,
2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



IN CHRIST

Old things are passed way
[/quote]

Yes, when people become Christians they are a new creation, forgiven, and on their way to heaven, but, they still struggle with besetting sins.  Paul said he did that which he didn't want to do, and didn't do that which he should do, regularly.  The flesh is still there, even though we've been made and delcared new.

 

[Izdaari]

It's not a choice, it's who they are, maybe a little bit nurture but mostly nature, i.e. genetically hardwired. The small percentage who can be changed that way were probably the ones who were never really gay in the first place, but merely thought they were.

Well, not that it's going to change your mind or break your heart, but I can't go so far as to make dogmatic declarations as you have above.  The jury is still out on whether there's a gay gene, and to assert otherwise is misinformed, agenda-based, or foolish.

There's new evidence from neurology, that the brains of gay and straight people are different. Not the software, the hardware.

Yes, when people become Christians they are a new creation, forgiven, and on their way to heaven, but, they still struggle with besetting sins.  Paul said he did that which he didn't want to do, and didn't do that which he should do, regularly.  The flesh is still there, even though we've been made and delcared new.

This much at least we agree on. Probably no surprise, we're both fans of Paul and just agreeing with him.

 

[rsc2a]

simul iustus et peccator 

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Izdaari]
There's new evidence from neurology, that the brains of gay and straight people are different. Not the software, the hardware.[/quote]


There's been a lot of claims of "evidence" that haven't panned out, but I'll take your word for it that there are new <allegedly> legitmate claims.  Regardless of the possible truthfulness of any purported gay gene, the fact is that homosexual behavior is clearly sinful and if it could be proven that there was an "lust" gene it wouldn't cause me to waffle on calling whoremongering what it really is.  And I think *that* was, in part, what Ozzy was getting at.