Deacons

[Bro Blue]

Are deacons today fulfilling the same ministry they were created for in the book of Acts? I have a buddy of mine, who is well traveled, who has made it a point to ask deacons at different churches what is there role in ministry. He never gets the same answer. Have modern day deacons been given a leadership, and decision making role that they were never intended to have?

 

[Bob]

Are deacons today fulfilling the same ministry they were created for in the book of Acts? I have a buddy of mine, who is well traveled, who has made it a point to ask deacons at different churches what is there role in ministry. He never gets the same answer. Have modern day deacons been given a leadership, and decision making role that they were never intended to have?

In many independent baptist churches, they have taken on the role of edler without one big requirement, ability to teach. I have been in churches where the Deacons ran everything but were not fit to teach.

 

[Bro Blue]

Why have they been given the authority to run anything outside of their biblical role?

 

[Bob]

Why have they been given the authority to run anything outside of their biblical role?

Why? I don't know. I think that they just morphed into that. Hiscox Directory of Baptist Churches talks about multiple Elders doing those functions, and deacons carrying out the serving role generall thought to have started in Acts 6.  Tht book was written in the late 1800's, early 1900's, but somewhere between then and now, it became what it is.

What is your observation on this issue?  What have you seen?

 

[Bro Blue]

Seen? Not much really, going on hearsay mainly. That and I read a lot.

 

[Bob]

Seen? Not much really, going on hearsay mainly. That and I read a lot.

Are you not an independent baptist? From your earlier posts, it seemed to me that you are in an ifb church and you are questioning  some of the things you have seen.

 

[Bro Blue]

Yes I'm in an ifb church. I don't really see how a lot of the inner workings go on. And I alluded to the fact that I am in the process of questioning everything in another topic.

 

[Bob]

So if you are in an ifb church, do you attend business meetings? Do you have access to a church constitution?  Those are ways to see how things operate.

 

[Bro Blue]

I think most stuff is hammered out by the staff and deacons and then presented to the church after a service. But I don't know too many people that would stand up before the entire church and state an opposition for fear of possible embarrassment.

 

[Bob]

I think most stuff is hammered out by the staff and deacons and then presented to the church after a service. But I don't know too many people that would stand up before the entire church and state an opposition for fear of possible embarrassment.

That is an interesting way to put it.

I would think godly men in leadership should make questions and input something that would not embarrass anyone.

 

[Bro Blue]

I'm not talking about leadership trying to embarrass anyone. Just saying some people would have a disagreement, but not want to end up looking like a mule's behind.

 

[Raine]

Why have they been given the authority to run anything outside of their biblical role?

In some churches, because the pastor wants a board to enforce his decisions and to seem to have accountability, but does not want Elders because then they would have some authority to teach and actually make decisions. In others, because it's always been done that way so they just keep on, or because nobody really understands the roles of deacons and elders or has bothered to define them.

 

[BALAAM]

Why have they been given the authority to run anything outside of their biblical role?

I came from a couple of fairly small churches (from 80 - 200) and we almost never had a pastor stay more than 2-5 years. Then in the search for a new pastor we may go a year or two without a full-time pastor. The deacons get kind of used to having to run the church and make decisions. If you grow up in churches like this the thinking of a deacon becomes, 'We will have to know what to do and how to operate when the pastor leaves here.'

 

[HeDied4U]

In some churches, because the pastor wants a board to enforce his decisions and to seem to have accountability, but does not want Elders because then they would have some authority to teach and actually make decisions. In others, because it's always been done that way so they just keep on, or because nobody really understands the roles of deacons and elders or has bothered to define them.

Well said!!

The downfall of many a church..."We've always done it that way."

 

[Bro Blue]

What would you guys say that the modern day deacon ministry ought to look like in light of the bible?

 

[Haagen-Dazs]

Why should men alone fulfill such a needed ministry? I feel it is the responsibility of Christians regardless of title or sex.

 

[Raine]

What would you guys say that the modern day deacon ministry ought to look like in light of the bible?

Since the word means servant, I see it as a position of service and ministering to the needs of others, not as a position of authority. The deacons in the Bible were shown waiting tables and making sure food was distributed to the widows and needy. From that, I would say modern deacons should be the ones doing or coordinating service projects and ministering to the needy. Deacons are not there to rule the church or tell the pastor what to do, and it should be a useful position not an honorific or a title given to someone because of social prominence or because they're tithes and attended church for years. Since the Bible and secular sources (Pliny the Younger) mention female deacons/deaconesses, I do think women can serve as deacons when it is a service position (but not when it is misused and becomes sort sort of governing board instead, or when they are expected to fill in for the pastor and preach at times).

I think part of the confusion in many Baptist churches is that we often ignore the position of Elder, or equate it with the office of pastor, and then place the deacons in the role that the elders should have. Elders are the ones who are tasked with helping run the church, making certain decisions, running things in absence of the pastor, etc. It is a position of more authority and this is also where interim pastors should come from if the church is without a pastor for a time. Some churches designate elders as "teaching elders" who preach and "ruling elders" who administrate; That can be a useful distinction  and it also sums up their roles in the church. I don't think that it will be possible to have the deacons in their proper ministry role without having the office  of Elder, separate and distinct from that of Deacon.

 

[Haagen-Dazs]

What would you guys say that the modern day deacon ministry ought to look like in light of the bible?

Since the word means servant, I see it as a position of service and ministering to the needs of others, not as a position of authority. The deacons in the Bible were shown waiting tables and making sure food was distributed to the widows and needy. From that, I would say modern deacons should be the ones doing or coordinating service projects and ministering to the needy. Deacons are not there to rule the church or tell the pastor what to do, and it should be a useful position not an honorific or a title given to someone because of social prominence or because they're tithes and attended church for years. Since the Bible and secular sources (Pliny the Younger) mention female deacons/deaconesses, I do think women can serve as deacons when it is a service position (but not when it is misused and becomes sort sort of governing board instead, or when they are expected to fill in for the pastor and preach at times).

I think part of the confusion in many Baptist churches is that we often ignore the position of Elder, or equate it with the office of pastor, and then place the deacons in the role that the elders should have. Elders are the ones who are tasked with helping run the church, making certain decisions, running things in absence of the pastor, etc. It is a position of more authority and this is also where interim pastors should come from if the church is without a pastor for a time. Some churches designate elders as "teaching elders" who preach and "ruling elders" who administrate; That can be a useful distinction  and it also sums up their roles in the church. I don't think that it will be possible to have the deacons in their proper ministry role without having the office  of Elder, separate and distinct from that of Deacon.

You bring up some great thoughts. Even Paul in I Timothy 3 starts off by saying, "Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task." After listing some qualities, he continues concerning the deacon "In the same way (as the overseer), deacons..." (parenthesis mine). Then Paul mentions "In the same way (as the overseer and/or deacons), the women..." (parenthesis mine). If these women did not perform in the same manner as the deacons and/or overseers, then why are there qualifications for them that include the same for the male overseers and deacons? There is a possibility that Paul was assuming that women also had a leadership role in the church on equal par with the overseers and deacons. Now, perhaps it might have been in a role of teaching other women (as mentioned in Titus) but nonetheless, there are qualifications listed in the same passage. Just maybe Paul may not have been as misogynist concerning the idea of church leadership as some might perceive.

 

[Bob]

What would you guys say that the modern day deacon ministry ought to look like in light of the bible?

Since the word means servant, I see it as a position of service and ministering to the needs of others, not as a position of authority. The deacons in the Bible were shown waiting tables and making sure food was distributed to the widows and needy. From that, I would say modern deacons should be the ones doing or coordinating service projects and ministering to the needy. Deacons are not there to rule the church or tell the pastor what to do, and it should be a useful position not an honorific or a title given to someone because of social prominence or because they're tithes and attended church for years. Since the Bible and secular sources (Pliny the Younger) mention female deacons/deaconesses, I do think women can serve as deacons when it is a service position (but not when it is misused and becomes sort sort of governing board instead, or when they are expected to fill in for the pastor and preach at times).

I think part of the confusion in many Baptist churches is that we often ignore the position of Elder, or equate it with the office of pastor, and then place the deacons in the role that the elders should have. Elders are the ones who are tasked with helping run the church, making certain decisions, running things in absence of the pastor, etc. It is a position of more authority and this is also where interim pastors should come from if the church is without a pastor for a time. Some churches designate elders as "teaching elders" who preach and "ruling elders" who administrate; That can be a useful distinction  and it also sums up their roles in the church. I don't think that it will be possible to have the deacons in their proper ministry role without having the office  of Elder, separate and distinct from that of Deacon.

You bring up some great thoughts. Even Paul in I Timothy 3 starts off by saying, "Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task." After listing some qualities, he continues concerning the deacon "In the same way (as the overseer), deacons..." (parenthesis mine). Then Paul mentions "In the same way (as the overseer and/or deacons), the women..." (parenthesis mine). If these women did not perform in the same manner as the deacons and/or overseers, then why are there qualifications for them that include the same for the male overseers and deacons? There is a possibility that Paul was assuming that women also had a leadership role in the church on equal par with the overseers and deacons. Now, perhaps it might have been in a role of teaching other women (as mentioned in Titus) but nonetheless, there are qualifications listed in the same passage. Just maybe Paul may not have been as misogynist concerning the idea of church leadership as some might perceive.

  I think your paranthesis is wrong. The women are on the same plane as deacons, not elders.  Paul also forbids women from being elders when he says I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. those two roles are what define elders, so he was clearly speaking of them not being elders.

 

[Haagen-Dazs]

What would you guys say that the modern day deacon ministry ought to look like in light of the bible?

Since the word means servant, I see it as a position of service and ministering to the needs of others, not as a position of authority. The deacons in the Bible were shown waiting tables and making sure food was distributed to the widows and needy. From that, I would say modern deacons should be the ones doing or coordinating service projects and ministering to the needy. Deacons are not there to rule the church or tell the pastor what to do, and it should be a useful position not an honorific or a title given to someone because of social prominence or because they're tithes and attended church for years. Since the Bible and secular sources (Pliny the Younger) mention female deacons/deaconesses, I do think women can serve as deacons when it is a service position (but not when it is misused and becomes sort sort of governing board instead, or when they are expected to fill in for the pastor and preach at times).

I think part of the confusion in many Baptist churches is that we often ignore the position of Elder, or equate it with the office of pastor, and then place the deacons in the role that the elders should have. Elders are the ones who are tasked with helping run the church, making certain decisions, running things in absence of the pastor, etc. It is a position of more authority and this is also where interim pastors should come from if the church is without a pastor for a time. Some churches designate elders as "teaching elders" who preach and "ruling elders" who administrate; That can be a useful distinction  and it also sums up their roles in the church. I don't think that it will be possible to have the deacons in their proper ministry role without having the office  of Elder, separate and distinct from that of Deacon.

You bring up some great thoughts. Even Paul in I Timothy 3 starts off by saying, "Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task." After listing some qualities, he continues concerning the deacon "In the same way (as the overseer), deacons..." (parenthesis mine). Then Paul mentions "In the same way (as the overseer and/or deacons), the women..." (parenthesis mine). If these women did not perform in the same manner as the deacons and/or overseers, then why are there qualifications for them that include the same for the male overseers and deacons? There is a possibility that Paul was assuming that women also had a leadership role in the church on equal par with the overseers and deacons. Now, perhaps it might have been in a role of teaching other women (as mentioned in Titus) but nonetheless, there are qualifications listed in the same passage. Just maybe Paul may not have been as misogynist concerning the idea of church leadership as some might perceive.

  I think your paranthesis is wrong. The women are on the same plane as deacons, not elders.  Paul also forbids women from being elders when he says I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. those two roles are what define elders, so he was clearly speaking of them not being elders.

You might possibly be correct. This is why I used "and/or" as somewhat of a disclaimer. If the deacons' qualifications were to include those of the overseer ("In the same way...") and the women's instruction includes the deacons' ("In the same way..."), it would mean the qualifications Paul put on women included those of the overseer.

An example would be that the cat ate the mouse that ate the cheese. The cheese is still in the cat.