CPAC "wonder boy" now rejecting conservatism?

[redgreen5]

Guess he got tired of the kool-aid:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/cpac-boy-wonder-now-liberal

    Jonathan Krohn took the political world by storm at 2009

 

[Izdaari]

It's not much of a surprise. As people grow up, it's very common for them to have different opinions than they had when they were 13. Thank God I don't believe the crap I believed when I was 13!

 

[redgreen5]

It's not much of a surprise. As people grow up, it's very common for them to have different opinions than they had when they were 13. Thank God I don't believe the crap I believed when I was 13!

Indeed.  At 13 years old, kids will often either repeat whatever their parents say, thinking it's a way to gain their validation. Or, they'll be so desperate to fit in with their junior high peer group, that they adopt whatever clothing, music, language, etc. that the group uses. 

But you have to wonder why the folks at CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) didn't realize all this, back in 2009 when they decided to showcase the 13 year old in the first place. Surely they must have known that there was a substantial risk that trying to parade a 13 year old at their conference might backfire in the future as the boy grew up and was exposed to more ideas, and started forming independent opinions. 

Besides, who relies on a 13 year old as some kind of ideological proof anyhow?  "Here; our indoctrination is so effective that we have successfuly turned this 13 year old kid into a robot. Let's have a round of applause for him!"

 

[The Glory Land]

Flip Flopper, in action. Send him to California. 

 

[AresMan]

It's not much of a surprise. As people grow up, it's very common for them to have different opinions than they had when they were 13. Thank God I don't believe the crap I believed when I was 13!

Indeed.  At 13 years old, kids will often either repeat whatever their parents say, thinking it's a way to gain their validation. Or, they'll be so desperate to fit in with their junior high peer group, that they adopt whatever clothing, music, language, etc. that the group uses. 

But you have to wonder why the folks at CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) didn't realize all this, back in 2009 when they decided to showcase the 13 year old in the first place. Surely they must have known that there was a substantial risk that trying to parade a 13 year old at their conference might backfire in the future as the boy grew up and was exposed to more ideas, and started forming independent opinions. 

Besides, who relies on a 13 year old as some kind of ideological proof anyhow?  "Here; our indoctrination is so effective that we have successfuly turned this 13 year old kid into a robot. Let's have a round of applause for him!"

Exactly, if his parents were mere "dittoheads" whose conservatism is just "Don't Tax Me, Bro" soundbites and unexplained images of smoking, beer-bellied jocks in SUV's, squishing a nerdy-looking "liberal" under the tires, the boy might not have been equipped to challenge the "scholarly" liberal dogma he encountered in high school social science courses.

 

[redgreen5]

It's not much of a surprise. As people grow up, it's very common for them to have different opinions than they had when they were 13. Thank God I don't believe the crap I believed when I was 13!

Indeed.  At 13 years old, kids will often either repeat whatever their parents say, thinking it's a way to gain their validation. Or, they'll be so desperate to fit in with their junior high peer group, that they adopt whatever clothing, music, language, etc. that the group uses. 

But you have to wonder why the folks at CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) didn't realize all this, back in 2009 when they decided to showcase the 13 year old in the first place. Surely they must have known that there was a substantial risk that trying to parade a 13 year old at their conference might backfire in the future as the boy grew up and was exposed to more ideas, and started forming independent opinions. 

Besides, who relies on a 13 year old as some kind of ideological proof anyhow?  "Here; our indoctrination is so effective that we have successfuly turned this 13 year old kid into a robot. Let's have a round of applause for him!"

Exactly, if his parents were mere "dittoheads" whose conservatism is just "Don't Tax Me, Bro" soundbites and unexplained images of smoking, beer-bellied jocks in SUV's, squishing a nerdy-looking "liberal" under the tires, the boy might not have been equipped to challenge the "scholarly" liberal dogma he encountered in high school social science courses.

I think you misread the article.  The boy dumped his conservative views; he didn't defend those views.

 

[Izdaari]

And since he's now 16, it's likely his views will continue to evolve as he learns.

 

[redgreen5]

And since he's now 16, it's likely his views will continue to evolve as he learns.

Absolutely. Everyone should change their mind a few times; it's good for the soul.

Besides, if a person doesn't understand *why* they believe something, then what good is it?  Beliefs should be challenged regularly, to keep us from fossilizing.

 

[christundivided]

And since he's now 16, it's likely his views will continue to evolve as he learns.

Absolutely. Everyone should change their mind a few times; it's good for the soul.

Besides, if a person doesn't understand *why* they believe something, then what good is it?  Beliefs should be challenged regularly, to keep us from fossilizing.

Coming from the "person" that's "stuck in the mud" of liberalism.....

 

[AresMan]

It's not much of a surprise. As people grow up, it's very common for them to have different opinions than they had when they were 13. Thank God I don't believe the crap I believed when I was 13!

Indeed.  At 13 years old, kids will often either repeat whatever their parents say, thinking it's a way to gain their validation. Or, they'll be so desperate to fit in with their junior high peer group, that they adopt whatever clothing, music, language, etc. that the group uses. 

But you have to wonder why the folks at CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) didn't realize all this, back in 2009 when they decided to showcase the 13 year old in the first place. Surely they must have known that there was a substantial risk that trying to parade a 13 year old at their conference might backfire in the future as the boy grew up and was exposed to more ideas, and started forming independent opinions. 

Besides, who relies on a 13 year old as some kind of ideological proof anyhow?  "Here; our indoctrination is so effective that we have successfuly turned this 13 year old kid into a robot. Let's have a round of applause for him!"

Exactly, if his parents were mere "dittoheads" whose conservatism is just "Don't Tax Me, Bro" soundbites and unexplained images of smoking, beer-bellied jocks in SUV's, squishing a nerdy-looking "liberal" under the tires, the boy might not have been equipped to challenge the "scholarly" liberal dogma he encountered in high school social science courses.

I think you misread the article.  The boy dumped his conservative views; he didn't defend those views.

No, I suggested that he may have "dumped his conservative views" because they may have been shallow tradition from parents who can't really defend them in a scholarly fashion.

 

[Izdaari]

I used to be a political conservative myself. I didn't learn it from parents or peers, but from watching Bill Buckley's PBS show, Firing Line, and from reading National Review. I was one from 14-18, when I defected to libertarianism. I'm still a libertarian, but a much more pragmatic and moderate one than I was then.

 

[FSSL]

And since he's now 16, it's likely his views will continue to evolve as he learns.

Absolutely. Everyone should change their mind a few times; it's good for the soul.

Besides, if a person doesn't understand *why* they believe something, then what good is it?  Beliefs should be challenged regularly, to keep us from fossilizing.

Where is redgreen on abortion?
Where is redgreen on gay marriage?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=FSSL]Where is redgreen on abortion?
Where is redgreen on gay marriage?[/quote]

I'm not one to categorize individuals on one or two issues, even though I do consider some issues to be weightier than others. In addition, the answers always aren't black and white, but frequently shades of grey, and people can have very solid reasons for landing on a position where I would completely disagree with their final conclusion.

 

[FSSL]

Christians ought to have no problem asking other confessed believers what their position is on those issues.

 

[rsc2a]

Christians ought to have no problem asking other confessed believers what their position is on those issues.

Or on education, the poor, health care, drug policy, the death penalty, war, the environment....

...why single out those two particular issues?

 

[FSSL]

Quote from: FSSL on Today at 09:14:58 PM

Christians ought to have no problem asking other confessed believers what their position is on those issues.

Or on education, the poor, health care, drug policy, the death penalty, war, the environment....

...why single out those two particular issues?

Because I asked.

Rsc2a... Tell us, what is YOUR view on abortion and gay marriage?

 

[rsc2a]

Quote from: FSSL on Today at 09:14:58 PM

Christians ought to have no problem asking other confessed believers what their position is on those issues.

Or on education, the poor, health care, drug policy, the death penalty, war, the environment....

...why single out those two particular issues?

Because I asked.

You mean because it's your litmus test for how "Christian" someone really is?

[quote author=FSSL]Tell us, what is your view on abortion and gay marriage?[/quote]

Gay Marriage
Theologically, I think the idea of "gay marriage" is impossible. As such, I wouldn't recognize a same-sex marriage as valid regardless of what the couple called themselves or what kind of relationship they had.

Politically, if consenting adults want to sign some paperwork so that others can inherit, make medical decisions, share property or whatever, I could care less. It doesn't matter what sex the parties are, how they are related, or how many parties there happens to be.

Abortion
How should I treat my neighbor...the one who works for an abortion clinic? Should I tell my kids they can't play with her kids? Should I put a giant sign in my yard saying "Abortion is murder"? Should I picket her house? Maybe put grotesque banners up showing aborted children?

Or maybe I should let her see my love for children when I have neighborhood kids hang out at my house. Maybe I should let her see me being a type of father to kids who don't have fathers at home. Maybe I should tell her I'm praying for her and her family. Maybe I should invite her over to dinner.

...I wonder which path Jesus would follow...

How should I speak the truth in love when dealing with pro-life friend who is considering abortion? She's scared that her pregnancy will destroy years of her father's ministry, both as an overseas missionary and as a pastor of a church. Maybe she's correct when she thinks her father could lose his pastorate because he can't "control his household" (in spite of the fact that she's an adult and living on her own). In fact, given the judgmental and inconsistent attitude in the church, this is a real concern.

I could show her graphic videos that she's already seen before. I could proclaim righteous indignation that she would murder her child (something she already knows). Or I could talk to her about the wisdom of her decision and try to let her know I'm sympathetic to her very real concerns.

And, when she follows through with that abortion and hates herself, I can be there to hold her when she's throwing up and crying, being a comfort and a friend in spite of what I believe was a horrible decision.

...I've been that friend...

What do you tell the scared 17 year old girl who got pregnant only to be abandoned by the guy because he was married unbeknown to her? What about when her family members, leading members of the church, and pastors are telling her it might be better to abort? What about this girl who knows that, in all likelihood, keeping this child will result in her giving up her dreams of college and living the rest of her life in hardship and poverty? What about this girl, who despite calling the clinic and getting all this advice, decides that her baby's life is precious and chooses to keep him?

By the grace of God...I am that child's father...

You will not find someone more staunchly pro-life than I am. I might make an exception for a case when the mother is clearly in such danger that pregancy would result in her death. Yet, both my wife and I are in agreement that in that situation, my wife will attempt to have the child at the risk of her own life. The God of my family considers miracles to be ordinary, and we would trust His decision, regardless of outcome.

But, that doesn't mean we treat people with different views as animals. We still try to listen to them, empathize, hear their concerns, and then treat them with compassion, grace, and love. The arrogant self-righteousness that would make me proclaim to be better than them nailed my Savior to the cross every bit as much as their sins did.

 

[FSSL]

Good. You didn't need to get prickly about the questions.

 

[rsc2a]

Good. You didn't need to get prickly about the questions.

It's not the questions I necessarily have a problem with. It's the thought that one can measure how "Christian" one is by how they answer those two topics (or any topics, really). And it's nearly always those two topics among conservatives. Christian thinking influences a lot more than abortion and gay marriage.

And, even in the discussion on those two topics, there are shades and nuances that make it less clear than "black" or "white". It is possible for someone to have completely different views than me on those (or nearly any) topic and for them still be to "as Christian" (or even "more Christian") than I am. People need to evaluate all the issues, weigh them, and see how they influence each other in order to derive a Biblical response regarding every issue in politics.

In other words, the abortion debate is about more than just abortion. It's about a host of other issues as well. "Shalom" is about a lot more than one issue. Justice & righteousness (in the Biblical sense) includes dealing with all these other problems. And just because someone disagrees with me doesn't mean they have poorer reasoning than I do (in many cases); it might just mean that they see things different than I do.

Just on the issue of abortion: if you want to come up with a Biblical response, you have to look at how education and socioeconomic status drives the conversation. You need to recognize there are cultural differences and/or barriers that need to be addressed; there are walls that need broken down; there is distrust that needs overcome. You have to see whether or not it is generationally-driven, and if so, how do you engage that? What do you do about the women who decide to keep the children but cannot provide for them, because frankly, many pro-lifers are just as quick to vilify the single mother as they are to vilify the woman who aborts her child. Jesus didn't just say, "Go and sin no more." He healed them then said, "Go and sin no more."

* And, abortion is very much a hot button topic for me. I consider it to be murder, plain and simple, but I still recognize that others might see things differently. My job isn't to change their hearts. My job is to provide support, unconditional love, and education...through that God may choose to change their hearts.

 

[FSSL]

Good. You didn't need to get prickly about the questions.

It's not the questions I necessarily have a problem with. It's the thought that one can measure how "Christian" one is by how they answer those two topics (or any topics, really). And it's nearly always those two topics among conservatives. Christian thinking influences a lot more than abortion and gay marriage.

You are too quick to make assumptions and are too prickly. Have I suggested I am more Christian? Nope.

I am just interested to know how liberal redgreen is... aren't you?