Church Discipline

[Biker]

The other thread got me thinking..."runnin  the bars" Not sure that should have ever been addressed due to the spirit it was relayed

Our church isn't catty overall so haven't had to deal with it since I've been a member but pertaining to church discipline, do churches practice

discipline upon those who cause dissension? Almost every sermon we have reminds us to be united in some form, seems to help but no church

is perfect.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The other thread got me thinking..."runnin  the bars" Not sure that should have ever been addressed due to the spirit it was relayed

Here is the OP from the thread you reference.



A couple months back I came across a young lady while soulwinning who was no longer attending  church.  She gave a credible profession of faith, but was soured on ANY church-goin'.  It seems she had a bad experience with what she perceived to be judgmental pharisees.  She had volunteered to be the designtated driver for her friends who were going out to get smashed at a local bar.  They weren't Christians, but were her friends, and she thought it was the responsible Christ-like thing to do in order to make sure they got home in one piece, and didn't kill anybody else either.  Her church got wind of her "runnin' the bars" and told her that she needed to stop such activities.  She claimed they conveyed such info in a judgmental way, and so she left the church and now just doesn't go at all because most Christians seem to jump to conclusions before hearing the matter.

What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?


So what exactly in that OP was a "bad spirit"?

...discipline upon those who cause dissension?

Define "cause dissension".

 

[rsc2a]

The other thread got me thinking..."runnin  the bars" Not sure that should have ever been addressed due to the spirit it was relayed

Our church isn't catty overall so haven't had to deal with it since I've been a member but pertaining to church discipline, do churches practice discipline upon those who cause dissension? Almost every sermon we have reminds us to be united in some form, seems to help but no church is perfect.

Some do. Some do not. I think all should.

I think the problem will be determining which is personal preference and which is Scriptural direction. I also think a problem will be how (and, more importantly, why) the church practices discipline.

 

[Biker]

So what exactly in that OP was a "bad spirit"?

I've googled "runnin the bars" and have no clue upon it's definition. Neither does my wife & 21 yr old son.

Their best guess is it equates to bar hopping with zeal/gusto drinking alcohol.

It appears not even up to par to be called worldy slang, it's pure nonsense

It makes the speaker sound incoherent. It baffles me as to why they didn't address a particular objection.

"Got wind" is not understood as a solid foundation to base truth on either. What is the objection and how did the person learn of it?

what exactly is the objection/sin?  Can love cover it? (love covers a multitude of sins)

No sin has even been identified.

 

[Biker]

The other thread got me thinking..."runnin  the bars" Not sure that should have ever been addressed due to the spirit it was relayed

Our church isn't catty overall so haven't had to deal with it since I've been a member but pertaining to church discipline, do churches practice discipline upon those who cause dissension? Almost every sermon we have reminds us to be united in some form, seems to help but no church is perfect.

Some do. Some do not. I think all should.

I think the problem will be determining which is personal preference and which is Scriptural direction. I also think a problem will be how (and, more importantly, why) the church practices discipline.

Makes sense. The "why" is spelled out in our tenants. Offhand i think that's what we call them

 

[rsc2a]

The other thread got me thinking..."runnin  the bars" Not sure that should have ever been addressed due to the spirit it was relayed

Our church isn't catty overall so haven't had to deal with it since I've been a member but pertaining to church discipline, do churches practice discipline upon those who cause dissension? Almost every sermon we have reminds us to be united in some form, seems to help but no church is perfect.

Some do. Some do not. I think all should.

I think the problem will be determining which is personal preference and which is Scriptural direction. I also think a problem will be how (and, more importantly, why) the church practices discipline.

Makes sense. The "why" is spelled out in our tenants. Offhand i think that's what we call them

The "why" as in why have discipline? I believe that is important simply as a matter of practical theology.

The "why" I was referring to here was "Why are we disciplining this individual? Is it to show our spiritual superiority? Is it to shame her? Is it to make an example out of him? Is this being done to instill fear and control or to instill love and hope? Is it to protect others in the church? Is it for hopes of repentance and reconciliation?" Since this would be specific to each circumstance, I don't know how you would codify this.

As to the how, I think the individual should be spoken to privately when possible and involving as few people as possible (Matt 18:15-17) , and it should only be public in egregious (or blatant unrepentant) circumstances. Egregious in this case would also include when it involves an elder, and even this requires discernment and compassion. And the how should be with reconciliation in mind, not as a punitive measure.

Something should perhaps be said about what it means to treat them "like a pagan or tax collector". I don't think this means you shun the person or treat them as if they are sub-human. You treat them as needing to be aware of their need for the grace of God in a way that believers are already aware, as needing the light of Christ shined into their life and opening their eyes to His love and mercy. They should be treated as captives, enslaved by the enemy..captives who we have been instructed to set free (with the key(s) won by Christ). They are not the enemy; they are prodigals who need to come home.

 

[Castor Muscular]

"Running the bars" is probably equivalent to "bar-hopping".  She was not bar-hopping. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

I believe in church discipline.

First offense:  The Comfy Chair

Second offense:  Bury them up to their neck and stone them to death

Third offense:  So far, there have been no third offenses

 

[Izdaari]

A couple months back I came across a young lady while soulwinning who was no longer attending  church.  She gave a credible profession of faith, but was soured on ANY church-goin'.  It seems she had a bad experience with what she perceived to be judgmental pharisees.  She had volunteered to be the designtated driver for her friends who were going out to get smashed at a local bar.  They weren't Christians, but were her friends, and she thought it was the responsible Christ-like thing to do in order to make sure they got home in one piece, and didn't kill anybody else either.  Her church got wind of her "runnin' the bars" and told her that she needed to stop such activities.  She claimed they conveyed such info in a judgmental way, and so she left the church and now just doesn't go at all because most Christians seem to jump to conclusions before hearing the matter.

What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?

Because ONE church treated her badly (and I think she's right about that), now she won't go to ANY church? She's doing what she accused them of doing: jumping to conclusions, in this case the conclusion that all churches are like that.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Because ONE church treated her badly (and I think she's right about that), now she won't go to ANY church? She's doing what she accused them of doing: jumping to conclusions, in this case the conclusion that all churches are like that.

Maybe she was unimpressed with other churches, too.  I'm pretty soured on church-goin' because of a mixture of bad experiences and unimpressive, boring churches.  I'll keep looking, but I don't make it a huge priority anymore.  There's always the church my wife likes (because they do Chinese there).  It's not my kind of church, but it's not that bad.  I've been meaning to try an Anglican or Lutheran church - just haven't nudged myself yet. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

So what exactly in that OP was a "bad spirit"?

I've googled "runnin the bars" and have no clue upon it's definition. Neither does my wife & 21 yr old son.

Their best guess is it equates to bar hopping with zeal/gusto drinking alcohol.

It appears not even up to par to be called worldy slang, it's pure nonsense

It makes the speaker sound incoherent. It baffles me as to why they didn't address a particular objection.

"Got wind" is not understood as a solid foundation to base truth on either. What is the objection and how did the person learn of it?

what exactly is the objection/sin?  Can love cover it? (love covers a multitude of sins)

No sin has even been identified.

As usual, I have nearly no clue what in the world you are on about.  "Running the bars" is synonymous to bar-hopping.  Those were her words.  She said that the people in her church were judging her for hanging out in the bars, regardless of her motive.  She claimed that they didn't care to investigate her story to find out that her motive was to be a designated driver. I have no idea whether they actually did any of that, or whether her version of the story was accurate.  One thing I have found though, is that I've been in ministry for quite awhile now, and people who aren't in church regularly make excuses as to why they don't want to be obedient to the Christ that gave Himself for the church.  People leave church often because of perceived slights from churchmembers or pastors, and rather than trying to go to another church where they can worship and serve they just abandon church altogether.  That seems like a convenient way of scapegoating so that they don't have to serve, give, or try to relate to their Christian brethren.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Because ONE church treated her badly (and I think she's right about that), now she won't go to ANY church? She's doing what she accused them of doing: jumping to conclusions, in this case the conclusion that all churches are like that.

Very good observation.  The tendency of people to bail out on relationships, whether church, marital, job, etc, is generally not helpful to building character or having productive life results.  The Biblical principle found in "great peace have they that love thy law and nothing shall offend them" goes a long way.  Further, if this girl was so spiritually mature that she recognized her Christlike duty to be compassionate towards her lost friends, where was that same maturity when it came to dealing with adversity in the Christian life as it related to working through problems with her pastor and elders?

 

[Recovering IFB]

Because ONE church treated her badly (and I think she's right about that), now she won't go to ANY church? She's doing what she accused them of doing: jumping to conclusions, in this case the conclusion that all churches are like that.

Very good observation.  The tendency of people to bail out on relationships, whether church, marital, job, etc, is generally not helpful to building character or having productive life results.  The Biblical principle found in "great peace have they that love thy law and nothing shall offend them" goes a long way.  Further, if this girl was so spiritually mature that she recognized her Christlike duty to be compassionate towards her lost friends, where was that same maturity when it came to dealing with adversity in the Christian life as it related to working through problems with her pastor and elders?

Maybe, there is not a church in her area where she would be comfortable at. Did you guys encourage her in The Lord to continue? Seems like a good time to teach her about legalism and the remedy to it as God's amazing grace.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Maybe, there is not a church in her area where she would be comfortable at.

There are 20,000 people in the city, and 80,000 in the surrounding county.  There's a church on every corner, and plenty of them are okay with people going to bars.  There's even a hipster church for the young cool cats with their soul-patches and skinny jeans.  It could be that she just needed an excuse.  I see it all the time.

Did you guys encourage her in The Lord to continue?

I told her that the devil would win a battle in her life if she let those folk drive her away from the Lord's church.  She's a babe on the milk who needs the word and like-minded fellowship to grow.  We invited her to church, after we prayed with her that the Lord would lead her in her search for a church.

 

[Timothy]

So what exactly in that OP was a "bad spirit"?

I've googled "runnin the bars" and have no clue upon it's definition.

I believe "running the bars" would be defined as when a person alone or with some friends visit multiple bars in a night.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Maybe, there is not a church in her area where she would be comfortable at.

There are 20,000 people in the city, and 80,000 in the surrounding county.  There's a church on every corner, and plenty of them are okay with people going to bars.  There's even a hipster church for the young cool cats with their soul-patches and skinny jeans.  It could be that she just needed an excuse.  I see it all the time.

Did you guys encourage her in The Lord to continue?

I told her that the devil would win a battle in her life if she let those folk drive her away from the Lord's church.  She's a babe on the milk who needs the word and like-minded fellowship to grow.  We invited her to church, after we prayed with her that the Lord would lead her in her search for a church.

I have seen it too, unfortunately, some people will make an excuse to not go. If she wishes to go, most sermons from most churches are available online and you can listen before you even step foot in the building so you know what your getting into. Thats how I found our current church

 

[Recovering IFB]

So what exactly in that OP was a "bad spirit"?

I've googled "runnin the bars" and have no clue upon it's definition.

I believe "running the bars" would be defined as when a person alone or with some friends visit multiple bars in a night.

Good, cuz sometimes my wife has some girls from work over having "makeover parties" so I will usually hit the local pub and stop in for a beer before the house "clears out" and don't have to deal with all that estrogen. Since it's just one bar, I wouldn't want to be running to another one.
Besides, too expensive, cheaper to but a 12 pack

 

[rsc2a]

I believe "running the bars" would be defined as when a person alone or with some friends visit multiple bars in a night.

Good, cuz sometimes my wife has some girls from work over having "makeover parties" so I will usually hit the local pub and stop in for a beer before the house "clears out" and don't have to deal with all that estrogen. Since it's just one bar, I wouldn't want to be running to another one.
Besides, too expensive, cheaper to but a 12 pack

Sinner.

 

[Recovering IFB]

I believe "running the bars" would be defined as when a person alone or with some friends visit multiple bars in a night.

Good, cuz sometimes my wife has some girls from work over having "makeover parties" so I will usually hit the local pub and stop in for a beer before the house "clears out" and don't have to deal with all that estrogen. Since it's just one bar, I wouldn't want to be running to another one.
Besides, too expensive, cheaper to but a 12 pack

Sinner.

Yup, in need of a Savior...