Can A Christian be Transgender

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There are some people born with ambiguous gender. Who gets to decide what their official gender will be? I do not believe God makes mistakes, so what is His plan for their lives?

In this case, the doctors decided to remove the male genitalia, leaving the female genitalia intact. A family adopted this child and discovered the doctors had made the wrong choice. How can this child be wrong for identifying as a boy?


http://www.newser.com/story/167972/parents-sue-over-toddlers-sex-surgery.html


And yes, I believe this child could be a Christian.
 
I just heard on the radio today that a guy (in China, I think) went to a doctor and discovered he had an ovarian tumor.  He had male parts on the outside, and female parts on the inside.  Now that's one I'd never heard before. 

Yes, by the way.  A transgender can be Christian. 
 
If salvation is attained by what Christ did FOR us on the cross, "and that not of ourselves" , through faith, then yes, this person can be saved.

If salvation is attained through works, depending ON ourselves, there might be a question based on Levitical law.
 
aleshanee said:
Timothy said:

did this person actually claim to be a christian?....  ??? ...  .. i might have missed it but i never saw where he did... ..  i did however note that he dubbed himself "warrior princess" in 2011 after retiring from the seals and made his gender change.... ..... . for the record i was given that nickname of warrior princess by our very own chuckbob of the fff.. many years ago.. after a minor hunting accident that required me to be sutured without anesthesia....  :-\ .... but being a 4 ft 10 female with beginnings that put me behind the 8 ball from the start i was always proud of that title.......  i can;t imagine why anyone born a man and gifted with the physical build and genetics that enabled him to become a navy seal, would be...... 

i won;t say a person like that could not be a christian.... . because that is between him... ummm or her... :-\....  and God... not for me to decide... ...  but christian or not..  and "warrior princess" or not... .. i wouldn;t let it follow me into the ladies restroom.... ..  :-\ ... ...

just saying....




You are THE Warrior Princess! Let no one dispute that claim.

ChuckBob
 
FWIW, here's that story about the man who turned out to be a woman.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4954454/sick-man-goes-to-doctors-and-told-youre-a-woman.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News

Stunned doctors realised the bearded patient was actually a woman when they found that the swollen belly was actually a large cyst on her ovary.

The subject suffered from two rare genetic disorders, one of which, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, increases male hormones meaning they had a beard and a "micropenis", the Hong Kong Medical Journal reported.

The other - Turner Syndrome - affects peoples X and Y chromosomes.

 
Unfortunate that many "transgendered" lump themselves in with the "Gay, Lesbian and Bi-Sexual" groups (GLBT). I consider myself very conservative on social issues but at the same time try not to have knee-jerk reactions to my right-wing tendencies. We had a good argument about this on the old FFF a few years ago and I did a bit of reading on the subject.  http://www.accordalliance.org/learn-about-dsd/faq.html#faqh1


Many people have what is called Disorder of Sexual Development. (DSD).


"Several dozen conditions count as “disorders of sex development” (DSD). Remember that DSD are defined by the medical community as “congenital conditions in which development of chromosomal, gonadal or anatomic sex is atypical.” So “DSD” is an umbrella term covering a wide variety of conditions in which sex develops differently from typical male or typical female development.

How Common Is DSD?

We do know that some particular disorders of sex development are fairly rare, occurring perhaps only once in ten or twenty thousand live births. For example, the development of ovotestes is a relatively rare phenomenon. But some DSD are substantially more common. For example, hypospadias (in which the urinary opening of the penis is not in the typical location) is estimated to occur as often as once in every 150 live male births.

Estimates from specialists working in major medical centers suggest that about one in every 2,000 births at a hospital involves a child whose genitals are atypical enough to make the child’s sex unclear. But, as noted above, if we count all types of sex anomalies, DSD must be considered much more numerous than 1 in 2,000. One review estimates that about one in a hundred persons has some kind of sex anomaly.

From another site speaking of people born considered "intersexed" (but what is now commonly called "DSD").

Though we speak of intersex as an inborn condition, intersex anatomy doesn’t always show up at birth. Sometimes a person isn’t found to have intersex anatomy until she or he reaches the age of puberty, or finds himself an infertile adult, or dies of old age and is autopsied. Some people live and die with intersex anatomy without anyone (including themselves) ever knowing.

So all of that to say at birth it's often not a black and white issue and most every doctor who delivers children regularly will likely have to decide what the sex of at least one child if not several will be considered for the rest of their lives. I believe the poster on the previous thread discussion was named Amy, quite conservative and a nurse who validated this to be true.

This being the case, as creepy as it is to me. I have to have some compassion for some struggling with this and realize they are not all just perverts...and can most certainly be believers.
 
aleshanee said:
DSD is far more common than people realize...  and unfortunately.. . until both the church and the medical community moves beyond the barbaric dark age beliefs about it and begins to study the part the brain plays in human sexuality and gender identity it is going to continue to be misunderstood and mishandled.... . modern medical technology has done much to enable doctors to deal with it better than they use to... . but they still have far to go.....  and much more to learn... .. it;s not a gay or lesbian issue... and in my opinion the GLBT groups need to leave these children alone and stop trying to pigeon hole them into one group or another or force them make a decision too early in life simply to serve their own political purposes..... .

God gave mankind the ability to learn and develop new technologies... and He can teach them to use that technology to help children born with DSD if all parties, medical and clergy alike will listen to Him and stop trying to lock Him out of the process ...

the brains of men and the brains of women are built very differently... . they are designed to function differently....  this is what needs to be studied more than the external plumbing.. or even the confusing and often conflicting issues of sexual attraction children often go through...  in order to determine and better understand gender identity.... ..... perhaps then cases of it being discovered late in life.... as an adult or in old age... .. or even in this rare case after one has served a 20 career as a life taker and heart breaker in the special forces.... (provided that was really a case of DSD).. can be avoided ....

I have to disagree with you. "Transgender" is often nothing more than an excused used by some..... to ignore their own physical "hard wiring". I'm not discounting that it exists. I believe it does to some degree.

You call for a real "study" on the issue, well the fact that you call for "real study" means you are admitting its not understood. Your argument is admitting its don't understand how sexual attraction is fostered. Yet, you are concluding its "far more common than people realize". See the contradiction? You either know or you don't know. In one place you claim we don't know and then you make the decision that its common. You can't have it both ways.

Our sexual hard wiring works a certain way. Its physically designed to work a certain way. You can take a pen and put it in you belly button. With time, you can learn to write with that pen that is in your belly button. Yet, that doesn't mean your belly button was designed to "write the next great graphic novel". To ignore this "physical attribute" designed by God is rather silly. Those that are born with physical abnormalities or have physical issues with the proper operation... are another story. Transgenders ignore their own physical hard wiring solely based on "a claim" of how they "feel" or are what they are "attracted" to do. From experience, what we "feel" often ends up misleading us. Don't let concern or a loving attitude override your common sense.

Often "children" that say they experience such "feelings" are experiencing nothing more than a battle with the flesh. They are too young to understand and there is no reason to "pamper" them to live solely by "their feelings". I'm certain that IF.... one of my brothers had went by how he felt. He'd killed me in my sleep before I was ten years old. He has as admitted as much to me. Yet, he didn't. We guide our children's choices. I can tell you. If any of my children had "claimed to be transgendered". I'd have a long serious talk with about how he wasn't old enough to discern anything about "how he feels". I would then encourage them to follow the natural law of God in creating their sexual genders. My parents did the same. It is our duty to do such things. Its is our responsibility.

Do you sincerely believe that a young teenager has the ability to properly discern much of anything? They are generally swayed by their peers... and sometimes... their parents. :)

Teenagers are looking for uniqueness. Even at the expense of caring relationships. The rebellious nature of humanity has caused more than one case of "transgender" claims.



 
aleshanee said:
i think you have completely misunderstood what i was saying... . . when i say DSD i am talking about children born with physical malformations that can sometimes make it hard for even experienced doctors to determine the babies true sex.... i am not talking about a person with a normal body of one gender claiming they feel they should have been born the other gender... but i am saying that in both cases the brain should be studied to determine what both it;s structure and it;s wiring are saying about that persons true gender.....  in the cases of babies with sexual birth defects it could help avoid mistakes in correcting the problem....  in the person who is claiming to be transgendered it could determine whether there is reall any validity in their claim or whether they are simply a person with same sex attraction issues, or a person whose brain is truly working in the way that a person of the opposite genders does.....    . .. 


Sorry I misunderstood you. There are clear cases of abnormalities in DSD and there are not so clear.

like i said before...  the brains of men and the brains of women are built very differently.. . not only in their wiring but in their physical structure as well.... there is was no condradiction in what i am saying... . the issue has not been studied well enough...and what has been studied has often been rejected by people who possess no more medical knowledge than a goose....  partly due to political pressure from gay lesbian groups who have a political axe to grind ..but also due to resistance by backward thinking christians who seem to be afraid that by studying this issue they are going to stumble across some knowledge that is going to challenge their faith... .. well if that is the case then their faith is pretty weak to begin with... ...  mine is not... .. . i believe God gave us the ability to deal with this effectively and to help those suffering from these problems..... .. not just to pigeon hole them into a gay or lesbian lifestyle on one hand .... or throw them out as a reprobate sinner on the other....  but if is truly a sin issue we should be able to deal with as well in a way that is constructive rather than the negative and detrimental way it has been done in the past decades.... .

Well.. that was a mouth full. :)

I am not concerned in the least of having my "faith challenged". I believe many lesbians and homeosexuals are "talked into" the lifestyle. Either by "information" like the "info" provided by you, or by coercing "feels" of rebellion in every person.

Lets cut to the chase. Tell me when a person with DSD, that is born anatomically a "male", is okay to find a male life partner? Is it okay if he simply has low testosterone and has develop features that less "masculine" than other males? DSD includes peoples of this nature. 

i have a degree in pre med biology and have actually seen the real examples of DSD.... ... both pictures of the ones who survived and were treated  and also preserved cadavers of those who didn;t...usually because of other physical malformations in their bodies as well.... the world is not black and white.... but it;s a lot easier to be dogmatic in your beliefs about it when you think it is.... .

Obviously DSD is broader than those who just have issues with growing proper adult genitalia. I am okay with with saying its not "cut and dry" when comes such things. On the other hand. Its not common. Its rare. More common that the average person things. Probabily, Yet, it is still rare non the less. Its not an excuse for someone with fully developed, properly working genital.... to claim a "transgendered identity".

you seem to have pretty jaded view of teenagers....  admittedly i have no idea what a normal teenager is supposed to feel like.... or what one reaised in the fundamentalist environment is supposed to able to discern.... . . i was exposed and thoroughly immersed in the adult world before i ever became a teenager... and saw my natural sister murdered when i was 10....  as a 10 year old who had been saved on a church bus at the age of 8 all i was looking for was safety..... i won;t say i had discernment then anywhere close to that of an adults...  but i had enough to know where that safety could best be found.... and where it was not to be found as well.... even though the people trying to lead me into those wrong directions were speaking up loud and working over time to do it....(and some of them are still trying to do it... ) .....  I knew nothing about being a christian when i as 10... nor did i have anyone trying to teach me either... i only knew how to pray to God for guidance and to trust Him that He would provide it... and He did.... 

I'm glad God did. Yet, we're not all the same. I can't explain why or how one does and one doesn't. I can give a general answer and that is neither here nor there.

We can't ignore sexual....social pressures on teenagers and young adults. Some are confident enough to not care what others think and others are all wrapped up in what others think. Such pressure leads people to act contrary to common sense and "just go" with "their feelings".
 
admin said:
Why not just do a DNA test to determine sex?

In most (not all, but most) cases, transgender means ignoring the DNA/chromosomes.
 
aleshanee said:
christundivided said:
Lets cut to the chase. Tell me when a person with DSD, that is born anatomically a "male", is okay to find a male life partner? Is it okay if he simply has low testosterone and has develop features that less "masculine" than other males? DSD includes peoples of this nature. 

it;s never ok.... and i never said it was.... i don;t think the people like the one you described... or the ex navy seal this thread was started about... should be included under the diagnosis of DSD... . but sometimes medical science makes the mistake of lumping things together that shouldn;t be .. . sometimes it happens simply because the issue hasn;t been studied well enough to know....... and other times it;s due to social and political pressure... ...

yes .. social pressure... peer pressure... parental pressure or guidance whether good or bad... . and hundred of other factors can have an effect on a childs development... throw it off track... or destroy it altogether.....  the perfect world that was the garden of eden is gone....  But the God who created it is still God....He does not create abominations that cannot be saved.... .



Thanks. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
I hear the phrase "gender confusion" used in the context ofd teens that aren't sure of their sexuality. I find it interesting that the "counsel" for them is often slanted toward the abnormal rather than the normal. Show up at the school counselor and declare some sense of ambiguity and the assumption will be that you are actually LGBT. No possible way that you could just be a normal kid going through a phase.
 
God made them MALE AND FEMALE. This time literally.

We are a sick society to be maiming little ones because they have the best of both world's. Surgery against their will, without their consent for cosmetic purposes makes them think there is something wrong with their bodies. Good grief








 
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