Who is to be baptized, & for what purpose?
Inquiring minds want to know... 8)
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Inquiring minds want to know... 8)
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Are We, as Believers, to be Baptized?
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wheatpenny
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I'm a Quaker, and here is our take on the baptism question: Quakers don't practice Water Baptism, basing it on Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism; The "one baptism" is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The command to be baptised is, like the command to wash each other's feet, understoood as not intended literally.
C
christundivided
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One of the best explanations I have ever read about baptism was actually written my Max Lucado. Even though he was technically wrong in some of things he said.
In my view it is impossible to understand baptism without understanding it from the Jewish perspective. When John the Baptist came on the scene proclaiming "Repent"..... Those that heard him knew what baptism represented to them. There wasn't any confusion. "Washing" with plain water had long been a part of ritual cleansing. Those things offered in sacrifice were often "washed" with water. They knew their own sin and that they needed to present themselves "clean" by "Repenting" and being "Baptized". They knew how they had turned from God and had become a rag tag nation controlled by the very people they were suppose to conquer. There was no misunderstand that somehow "water" actually made them "clean". They knew the rituals. They knew the representation. "John the Baptist" dispelled all doubt among them.
When Peter stood up on the day of Pentecost and cried. "Repent and be baptized".... His call wasn't to any Gentile. His call wasn't to any Jew needing to have their "sins washed away with water". His call was to those that had rejected the message of John the Baptist. The message of Christ. The message of apostles/disciples that had preached many years among them. THOSE PEOPLE needed to swallow their pride and recognize rejection of the truth that had been preached among them.
Such a message never extended into the early church. Even Paul clearly stated
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Too often "baptism" is made part of the essentials of the "Gospel". While I tend to agree that is very important. If you understand how God used "baptism" to deal with Israel.... there is no need to confuse the message of baptism within the Church.
I personally was baptized many months after I accepted Christ as my Lord. I felt no overwhelming need to be baptized and I attended a "Baptist" church that baptized converts only 2 or 3 times a year.
"Baptism" will never wash away sin. Baptism will not make you any more accepted in the eyes of God than the very moment you meet Him personally in regeneration. Baptism is nothing more than a acknowledging the work of God in this world concerning the advent of our Lord.
Having said that.....
I don't know why anyone that claims Christ wouldn't want to acknowledge and identify in such a marvelous work of Grace among mankind.
In my view it is impossible to understand baptism without understanding it from the Jewish perspective. When John the Baptist came on the scene proclaiming "Repent"..... Those that heard him knew what baptism represented to them. There wasn't any confusion. "Washing" with plain water had long been a part of ritual cleansing. Those things offered in sacrifice were often "washed" with water. They knew their own sin and that they needed to present themselves "clean" by "Repenting" and being "Baptized". They knew how they had turned from God and had become a rag tag nation controlled by the very people they were suppose to conquer. There was no misunderstand that somehow "water" actually made them "clean". They knew the rituals. They knew the representation. "John the Baptist" dispelled all doubt among them.
When Peter stood up on the day of Pentecost and cried. "Repent and be baptized".... His call wasn't to any Gentile. His call wasn't to any Jew needing to have their "sins washed away with water". His call was to those that had rejected the message of John the Baptist. The message of Christ. The message of apostles/disciples that had preached many years among them. THOSE PEOPLE needed to swallow their pride and recognize rejection of the truth that had been preached among them.
Such a message never extended into the early church. Even Paul clearly stated
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Too often "baptism" is made part of the essentials of the "Gospel". While I tend to agree that is very important. If you understand how God used "baptism" to deal with Israel.... there is no need to confuse the message of baptism within the Church.
I personally was baptized many months after I accepted Christ as my Lord. I felt no overwhelming need to be baptized and I attended a "Baptist" church that baptized converts only 2 or 3 times a year.
"Baptism" will never wash away sin. Baptism will not make you any more accepted in the eyes of God than the very moment you meet Him personally in regeneration. Baptism is nothing more than a acknowledging the work of God in this world concerning the advent of our Lord.
Having said that.....
I don't know why anyone that claims Christ wouldn't want to acknowledge and identify in such a marvelous work of Grace among mankind.
C
christundivided
Guest
wheatpenny said:
While I agree based on
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
This does not exclude practicing water baptism.
Go back to verse 4 of Ephesians 4 and read there is one "body" and then remember the words of Paul in
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
Ephesians 4:5's talk of one baptism does not exclude the practice of water baptism.
It's the primary means of confessing Christ before men, showing that your life has been changed - if your life hasn't been changed than your baptism is a lie. The primary reason for baptism isn't joining a local church.
That Christ told us to be baptized is reason enough.
christundivided said:
Paul does say that some Gentiles were baptized in I Corinthians. And what about the jailor and his household? They were baptized. And Jesus command (the great commission) doesn't say only baptize Jews. Also Peter gave permission for Gentiles to be baptized (with water Acts 10:47) after they had received the Spirit and gave evidence by speaking in tongues).
Now maybe I misunderstood you but it looks like you are saying that only Jews are called to be baptized. It's true that the gospel was to the Jew first but remember that originally they thought that only Jews would be part of the church and Gentiles were still thought to be unclean until Peter had that vision.
rsc2a said:
It also pictures the gospel - death, burial and resurrection. The gospel and believing in it is included in confessing Christ. You are not just confessing Christ the person but the doctrine of Christ as well.
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brianb said:
Not that you can compartmentalize all of this but it also has memorial significance, eschatological significance, communal significance, soteriological significance (although not salvific), ecclesiological significance, pneumatological significance.....
...and on and on and on...
C
Castor Muscular
Guest
wheatpenny said:
Well, I really like your oats.
Good replies everyone! thanks Bryan and Christundevided for elaborating with scripture. Kept me busy for a while...
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying,
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying,
C
christundivided
Guest
brianb said:
Baptism was first to the Jews. You can't understand "baptism" without understanding it from a Jewish perspective.
NO. I am not saying baptism is only for Jewish peoples. I even related my own baptism (not a Jew) and how that everyone should be baptized.
What I said.... was the message of the Gospel was never any longer "repent and be baptized". You will not find such taught by any apostle/disciple after Pentecost. Baptism is not an essential of the Gospel. Yes. You should be baptized by immersion.... but NO... it doesn't save anyone. It doesn't regenerate anyone. It doesn't prepare anyone for service in the "church". In fact, if someone choose not the baptized.... they are not going to end up in hell. I've never read where John the Baptist was ever baptized. I do know he sought to baptized of Christ but we don't see that Christ ever did such.
C
christundivided
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[quote author=christundivided]The baptism of Christ wasn't a model for all believers. His baptism was for an entirely different purpose. It was His "inauguration" to the world.[/quote]
And to identify him as both the new (read "better") Israel and new (read "better") Moses.
(Although I think there is some "modeling" significance in His action for believers, just not a "do this because Jesus did" type of modeling.)
And to identify him as both the new (read "better") Israel and new (read "better") Moses.
(Although I think there is some "modeling" significance in His action for believers, just not a "do this because Jesus did" type of modeling.)
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Chapter XXVIII
Of Baptism
I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5] of remission of sins,[6] and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life.[7] Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.[8]
II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the Gospel, lawfully called thereunto.[9]
III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.[10]
IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[11] but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.[12]
V. Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]
VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;[16] yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongs unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in His appointed time.[17]
VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.[18]
Of Baptism
I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5] of remission of sins,[6] and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life.[7] Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.[8]
II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the Gospel, lawfully called thereunto.[9]
III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.[10]
IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[11] but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.[12]
V. Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]
VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;[16] yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongs unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in His appointed time.[17]
VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.[18]
Don't like the conclusion I've came to. It appears we are to be baptized.
It's probably vague for a reason, those who do not wish to, won't.
I've never witnessed a real life Baptism before...
Seems awfully intimate :-\
It's probably vague for a reason, those who do not wish to, won't.
I've never witnessed a real life Baptism before...
Seems awfully intimate :-\
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T-Bone said:
You do know that all those numbers are footnotes for Scripture references, right? In this case, there are probably more than 100 referenced texts.
(coming from someone who is agnostic towards paedobaptism)