An article about Pensacola Christian College on the Fox News Site.

[Tarheel Baptist]

Is any publicity 'good' publicity?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/02/florida-college-sues-graduate-for-100g-in-alleged-cybersquatting/?test=latestnews

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Wow I had no idea that kind of stuff was even approaching illegality. That link seems to imply that if Gage hadn't made it clear that his website was not official then it would be wrong?

I don't see how PCC can sue someone using a domain name they want. If I register DisneyLand.org then I expect Disney Land to pay me money if they want it, not sue me.

 

[JrChurch]

I think PCC should ignore the other site as it clearly operates within the law.  They can exercise control over the students who choose to attend the college, but former students are beyond their reach.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Wow I had no idea that kind of stuff was even approaching illegality. That link seems to imply that if Gage hadn't made it clear that his website was not official then it would be wrong?

I don't see how PCC can sue someone using a domain name they want. If I register DisneyLand.org then I expect Disney Land to pay me money if they want it, not sue me.

I agree.
According to the story, the guy hasn't updated the site since 2003. They should have quietly settled the matter, their suit just adds rocket fuel to this once smoldering ember.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Its the topic at Stuff Fundies Like today
http://www.stufffundieslike.com/

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

stuff fundies like is very often people attacking the fundys by exhibiting the same attitude, intolerance, judgementalism and lack of perspective for which they criticize fundys. IMHO

 

[JrChurch]

I'm not so sure they can exercise control over their current students. 

Correction:  They can endeavor to exercise control over their current students.

 

[Recovering IFB]

stuff fundies like is very often people attacking the fundys by exhibiting the same attitude, intolerance, judgementalism and lack of perspective for which they criticize fundys. IMHO

Can't say I disagree with you to some point, but seeing that in them, have you looked to see how you can grow in that area if your life?, I admit, I need to.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Recovering IFB:
Can't say I disagree with you to some point, but seeing that in them, have you looked to see how you can grow in that area if your life?, I admit, I need to.

For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.
I do try to practice what I preach....I see the faults in the fundamentalist movement and have tried to make changes in my life and ministry.
But, I also see the same traits, attitudes and language in their critics.
Plus the so called contemporary movement has it's own issues, which are often overlooked by the harsh critics of the fundies.

Just my opinions and observations.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.[/quote]

Examples?

What I see with SFL is somewhere where the excesses and abuses of Fundamentalism are pointed out.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I do try to practice what I preach....I see the faults in the fundamentalist movement and have tried to make changes in my life and ministry.
But, I also see the same traits, attitudes and language in their critics.[/quote]

At times.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Plus the so called contemporary movement has it's own issues, which are often overlooked by the harsh critics of the fundies.[/quote]

And yes.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.

What I see with SFL is somewhere where the excesses and abuses of Fundamentalism are pointed
[/quote]

Here is a sampling of a blog post from someone who is NO fundy about sfl, which echoes some of my hesitation about them. The writer later interviewed Daryl of sfl, I believe.

Contemplating the utter hypocrisy of these positions will, again, get you nowhere. In the progressive’s philosophical fog bank, it’s okay to be intolerant, snide, foul-mouthed, condemning and judgmental… provided your objective is to belittle evangelicals. Everyone else can share a kumbaya moment. It’s us evil conservative Christians who are shunned from the circle.

So it’s no wonder that this sensitive, deeply loving, community of activists and emobloggers would give rise to the Anti-Evangelical Hate Machine — an entire movement bent on cataloging, ridiculing, scoffing at, lampooning, and mocking evangelical culture.

Here’s a sampling of the Hate Machine at work:

Stuff Christian Culture Likes — The Webmaster explains, “This is a scientific approach to highlight and explain stuff Christian culture likes. They are pretty predictable… Christian culture is funny because it doesn’t have much (if anything) to do with Christ himself.” In that spirit, SCCL “scientifically” mocks worship conferences, mocks conservative politicians, and mocks evangelical terminology. Justifying hatred of evangelicals never seemed so… “scientific.”

Stuff Fundies Like — Which lists “Fundy Rules” like:

1. I am right and you are wrong. Always.

3. The less certain something is, the more certain you must appear to be about it.

6. The less fun it is the godlier it must be.

7. Women’s primary purpose is to serve as a temptation to men. They are also somewhat useful for housework.

9. If it is new it is bad. If it is old it is good.

10. There is no situation that a good dose of ministerial yelling can’t fix.

Of course, this unintentionally reveals Rule Number One of the Anti-Evangelical Hate Machine:

1.) Do what you must to make conservative Christians look as stupid as possible.

 

[rsc2a]

Here is the interview you were talking about.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.

Examples?[/quote]

And you still haven't provided examples of this...

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.

Examples?

And you still haven't provided examples of this...
[/quote]

The entire post above was an example...it was a perspective from someone NOT familiar with fundamentalism.
The poor fundy's stopped clocks aren't even right twice a day if you take the attitude and agenda of sfl as gospel.

Much of what they might site is based in fact, I'm sure, but they are not intellectually honest in their presentation and assessment of fundamentalism as a whole. They paint with the brooooooadest of brooooad brushes.
If you think otherwise, you're welcome to your wrong conclusion.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.

Examples?

And you still haven't provided examples of this...

The entire post above was an example...it was a perspective from someone NOT familiar with fundamentalism.
The poor fundy's stopped clocks aren't even right twice a day if you take the attitude and agenda of sfl as gospel.

Much of what they might site is based in fact, I'm sure, but they are not intellectually honest in their presentation and assessment of fundamentalism as a whole. They paint with the brooooooadest of brooooad brushes.
If you think otherwise, you're welcome to your wrong conclusion. [/quote]

I didn't ask what someone else thought about SFL. (You are aware that this individual equated the IFB movement with Westboro, right?)

You said SFL isn't usually intellectually honest. This is what I asked for examples of. Again...not what someone thinks of the site. Actual examples of what you claim.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.

Examples?

And you still haven't provided examples of this...

The entire post above was an example...it was a perspective from someone NOT familiar with fundamentalism.
The poor fundy's stopped clocks aren't even right twice a day if you take the attitude and agenda of sfl as gospel.

Much of what they might site is based in fact, I'm sure, but they are not intellectually honest in their presentation and assessment of fundamentalism as a whole. They paint with the brooooooadest of brooooad brushes.
If you think otherwise, you're welcome to your wrong conclusion.

I didn't ask what someone else thought about SFL. (You are aware that this individual equated the IFB movement with Westboro, right?)

You said SFL isn't usually intellectually honest. This is what I asked for examples of. Again...not what someone thinks of the site. Actual examples of what you claim.
[/quote]

I'm familiar with the blog...he thought that (about Westboro) because of what he read on sfl.
They are not intellectually honest about fundies, as a reading of the referenced and quoted blog post illustrates.

Now, if you think they are honest, straightforward and even handed in dealing with fundamentalism, you have comprehension and understanding problems...IMO.
I have the same opinion of the do the 'do right Hyles Anderson' FB page.

Perhaps you could site examples of their intellectual honesty....

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I'm familiar with the blog...he thought that (about Westboro) because of what he read on sfl.[/quote]

Yes...there are many similarities between Westboro and the IFB movement. SFL has pointed this out. Instead of acknowledging that this is a problem within the movement, you attempt to discredit the messenger.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]They are not intellectually honest about fundies, as a reading of the referenced and quoted blog post illustrates. [/quote]

So you cannot provide any examples, just baseless accusations. Instead you rely on the opinions of others, opinions that, likewise, do not provide any actual examples of the alleged behavior. Got it!

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Now, if you think they are honest, straightforward and even handed in dealing with fundamentalism, you have comprehension and understanding problems...IMO.
I have the same opinion of the do the 'do right Hyles Anderson' FB page.[/quote]

Yet you cannot point to a single example to support your claim...

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Perhaps you could site examples of their intellectual honesty....[/quote]

The burden of proof isn't on me, but...

Hey, man. Can you hook me up? I need something right now. I heard a rumor that you just got in a fresh batch of rules. C’mon man, I’m really hurting here. How about just a little bump of guilt? Just give me a few hits of those sweet, sweet standards to help me level out.

Please. I’m begging you, man. Just give me one more rule. How about give me just a ‘teenth, man. Just give me a sixteenth commandment to add to my spiritual walk and that will be all I need, I swear. I won’t do any more after this. I’m gonna get clean and go back to my sobriety of grace but you know how it is, I can’t even think straight when I’m like this.

I just need some a few more statutes and precepts, man. Help a brother out! Anything you’ve got. I’ll take whatever. A decree? An edict? You can even make fun of my clothes, man. Just lay it on me. I’m in bad shape here.

Sure, you know I’ll pay anything. You want a cut of my income? Done. You want me to work for you for free on weekends, you know I’m good for it, man. Hey, let me sweeten the deal, you want my kid’s future? You want him to worship you and love you more than he loves me? I’ll make it happen for you, man. Just give me what I need.

Just give me the guilt, man. Just make me believe I’m bad. I can’t live without it. - SFL.

Now would you like me to point to the actual IFB people (some very big in the movement) that say these types of things? (In fact, if you'd like, I can just link to various posts on this very site.)

(And, for the record, I just grabbed the latest post. I didn't even try searching for a post to make my point.)

 

[Just John]

I try to remember to go to SFL a couple times each week. It's a mix of parody, satire, irony and yes, criticism...and a lot of laughs. Like most parody and satire it can be over the top at times. The mix of posters is a real potpourri though. I am a conservative evangelical and think most fit in that box although there are some to the left and a few to the right.

I think like most stereotypes, there is usually enough truth to them to make them a stereotype. I pasted below from their site what I think are fair enough points for IFB'x types to be lampooned about. (Of course some of them we can all be guilty of of.)

4. If you cannot win an argument with logic you must simply outlast your opponent. Once he gives up, declare victory.

5. There is no fight that is not worth fighting.

9. If it is new it is bad. If it is old it is good. (with the exception that if it is really, really old then it is likely to be Catholic)

10. There is no situation that a good dose of ministerial yelling can’t fix.

11. Old Testament rules about sex, tattoos, women in pants, and the death penalty still apply. Old Testament rules about lobster don’t. (That is why we call this the Age of Grace)

18. Thou shalt not speak out against other (of the pastor's) fundamentalists (friends) on any subject that really matters. Keep disputes as trivial as possible lest you risk having your own dirty laundry exposed.

19. Spare the rod and spoil the child. (A “rod” being defined as a paddle, stick, belt, spatula, wooden spoon, rubber hose, truncheon, flail, or anything else that happens to be handy)

21. Pastors should preach as frequently as possible on sin — preferably the sins of other people

23. We reject the authority of the Pope to speak ex cathedra on matters of doctrine. That’s what local church pastors are for.

25. Dancing is an abomination unless it takes place in a classic film or on the stage of a Gilbert & Sullivan musical at a fundamentalist college.

30. A Christian taking government aid is a sure sign they are not trusting God. (Not that our church is going to start paying its employees enough to live on, mind you. )

33. We deny the mysticism of the Catholics and the signs and wonders of the charismatics. We do, however, have a litany of strange coincidences to get us totally stoked.

35. “Fellowship” = “Food”

36. In a business meeting all in favor of the pastor’s motion shall signify by saying “aye.” All opposed shall shut up if they know what’s good for them.

37.If there’s hair touching your ears, there’s sin in your heart.

42. The truth shall not be allowed to get in the way of any good sermon illustration.

45. Context? Our proof texts don’t need no stinkin’ context!

46. The moving picture house is a bastion of wickedness. Watching the same (G Rated) movies at home is just fine.

49. Every date is a potential mate. Not that we’re trying to put pressure on you or anything.

51. Bad things that happen to me and mine are persecution and attacks of Satan. Bad things that happen to you and yours are God’s judgment for your sinful ways.

52. The King James version was written to bring the Bible into the language of the common man of the 1600′s. If today’s common man can’t understand it that’s his own stupid fault.

55. The fact that toddlers will instinctively dance to music with a beat is evidence of their Adamic nature.

56. Rock music is perfectly acceptable to play in church so long as the person doing it is an evangelist who is demonstrating exactly how wrong it is to play rock music in church.

58. Halloween is a demonic holiday wherein people dress up in costumes and beg for candy on the 31st of October. Harvest Festival is a God-honoring event wherein people dress up in costumes and beg for candy (by complete coincidence) also on the 31st of October.

59. While we believe that no good Christian should ever go to a godless, atheist, state-run university, that does not stop us from proudly rooting for their godless, atheist football team.

60. Gluttony is barely a sin and only worth mentioning from the pulpit in the context of a joke.

62. You talking about my church’s scandal is gossip and backbiting. Me talking about your church’s scandal is instruction and warning.

63. Body piercings, tattoos, and unnatural hair colors are counter-cultural and therefore evil. Culottes and arranged marriages are counter-cultural and therefore required.

64. If something is unfamiliar or difficult to understand, it’s best to take a stand against it by default. Reasons can be invented later.

65. Anything that becomes popular with more than 70% of fundamentalists must both be made obligatory and used as a test of fellowship.

66. The only emotions allowed to be displayed in a church service are anger, guilt, and sorrow. All others are likely to be caused by latent charismatic tendencies.

69. Every character in any Christian book or movie must act like a Christian. Even the murdering, raping, and pillaging villains must never be seen to curse or fornicate.

70. When you pick on our guy for something stupid he did, it’s judgement. When we pick on your guy for something stupid he did, it’s discernment.

71. Lying in a sermon is perfectly acceptable as long as it is done with really good intentions. (Such as proving how awesome the speaker is).

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]For starters, I seldom read SFL...because they aren't usually intellectually honest...imo.

Examples?

And you still haven't provided examples of this...

The entire post above was an example...it was a perspective from someone NOT familiar with fundamentalism.
The poor fundy's stopped clocks aren't even right twice a day if you take the attitude and agenda of sfl as gospel.

Much of what they might site is based in fact, I'm sure, but they are not intellectually honest in their presentation and assessment of fundamentalism as a whole. They paint with the brooooooadest of brooooad brushes.
If you think otherwise, you're welcome to your wrong conclusion.

I didn't ask what someone else thought about SFL. (You are aware that this individual equated the IFB movement with Westboro, right?)

You said SFL isn't usually intellectually honest. This is what I asked for examples of. Again...not what someone thinks of the site. Actual examples of what you claim.
[/quote]


You challenged my opinion of sfl....which was ans is that they are not intellectually honest when it comes to fundys...which is basically their entire content.
Their goal is to make the fundies look like fools...which sadly isn't that difficult much of the time.

You asked for examples, I referred you to the blog post which was THE perfect example of how someone outside the debate views them.

Now, like Linda Murphrey and Hyles, the fact that sfl has little credibility with me doesn't mean they aren't right in much of the excesses they point out. It doesn't mean I'm defending fundamentalism or their extreme practices. It means IMO....that sfl often uses the same tactics against the fundies that they are criticizing in the fundies.

And Sidlow Baxter is not heretical either.....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I try to remember to go to SFL a couple times each week. It's a mix of parody, satire, irony and yes, criticism...and a lot of laughs. Like most parody and satire it can be over the top at times. The mix of posters is a real potpourri though. I am a conservative evangelical and think most fit in that box although there are some to the left and a few to the right.

I think like most stereotypes, there is usually enough truth to them to make them a stereotype. I pasted below from their site what I think are fair enough points for IFB'x types to be lampooned about. (Of course some of them we can all be guilty of of.)

4. If you cannot win an argument with logic you must simply outlast your opponent. Once he gives up, declare victory.

5. There is no fight that is not worth fighting.

9. If it is new it is bad. If it is old it is good. (with the exception that if it is really, really old then it is likely to be Catholic)

10. There is no situation that a good dose of ministerial yelling can’t fix.

11. Old Testament rules about sex, tattoos, women in pants, and the death penalty still apply. Old Testament rules about lobster don’t. (That is why we call this the Age of Grace)

18. Thou shalt not speak out against other (of the pastor's) fundamentalists (friends) on any subject that really matters. Keep disputes as trivial as possible lest you risk having your own dirty laundry exposed.

19. Spare the rod and spoil the child. (A “rod” being defined as a paddle, stick, belt, spatula, wooden spoon, rubber hose, truncheon, flail, or anything else that happens to be handy)

21. Pastors should preach as frequently as possible on sin — preferably the sins of other people

23. We reject the authority of the Pope to speak ex cathedra on matters of doctrine. That’s what local church pastors are for.

25. Dancing is an abomination unless it takes place in a classic film or on the stage of a Gilbert & Sullivan musical at a fundamentalist college.

30. A Christian taking government aid is a sure sign they are not trusting God. (Not that our church is going to start paying its employees enough to live on, mind you. )

33. We deny the mysticism of the Catholics and the signs and wonders of the charismatics. We do, however, have a litany of strange coincidences to get us totally stoked.

35. “Fellowship” = “Food”

36. In a business meeting all in favor of the pastor’s motion shall signify by saying “aye.” All opposed shall shut up if they know what’s good for them.

37.If there’s hair touching your ears, there’s sin in your heart.

42. The truth shall not be allowed to get in the way of any good sermon illustration.

45. Context? Our proof texts don’t need no stinkin’ context!

46. The moving picture house is a bastion of wickedness. Watching the same (G Rated) movies at home is just fine.

49. Every date is a potential mate. Not that we’re trying to put pressure on you or anything.

51. Bad things that happen to me and mine are persecution and attacks of Satan. Bad things that happen to you and yours are God’s judgment for your sinful ways.

52. The King James version was written to bring the Bible into the language of the common man of the 1600′s. If today’s common man can’t understand it that’s his own stupid fault.

55. The fact that toddlers will instinctively dance to music with a beat is evidence of their Adamic nature.

56. Rock music is perfectly acceptable to play in church so long as the person doing it is an evangelist who is demonstrating exactly how wrong it is to play rock music in church.

58. Halloween is a demonic holiday wherein people dress up in costumes and beg for candy on the 31st of October. Harvest Festival is a God-honoring event wherein people dress up in costumes and beg for candy (by complete coincidence) also on the 31st of October.

59. While we believe that no good Christian should ever go to a godless, atheist, state-run university, that does not stop us from proudly rooting for their godless, atheist football team.

60. Gluttony is barely a sin and only worth mentioning from the pulpit in the context of a joke.

62. You talking about my church’s scandal is gossip and backbiting. Me talking about your church’s scandal is instruction and warning.

63. Body piercings, tattoos, and unnatural hair colors are counter-cultural and therefore evil. Culottes and arranged marriages are counter-cultural and therefore required.

64. If something is unfamiliar or difficult to understand, it’s best to take a stand against it by default. Reasons can be invented later.

65. Anything that becomes popular with more than 70% of fundamentalists must both be made obligatory and used as a test of fellowship.

66. The only emotions allowed to be displayed in a church service are anger, guilt, and sorrow. All others are likely to be caused by latent charismatic tendencies.

69. Every character in any Christian book or movie must act like a Christian. Even the murdering, raping, and pillaging villains must never be seen to curse or fornicate.

70. When you pick on our guy for something stupid he did, it’s judgement. When we pick on your guy for something stupid he did, it’s discernment.

71. Lying in a sermon is perfectly acceptable as long as it is done with really good intentions. (Such as proving how awesome the speaker is).

And how does any of that change the fact that IMO, sfl is not intellectually honest in their extreme broad brushing of the IFB movement?

Do you not often believe that the critics of Warren and Saddleback are less than intellectually honest in what they use against him/them?