A new honor from Bob Gray Sr

This article comments on James Spurgeon's book, as well as providing more anecdotes on life with Bob Gray in Longview:

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Testimonies from Former Longview Baptist Temple Members

Emmanuel Baptist Church of Longview, formerly Longview Baptist Temple, has accumulated an infamous reputation among locals and former members throughout the years. It is widely considered to be a c…
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Lots of weird stuff: "'My parents were broke all the time. But they just kept wanting more money. Most of the church members lived paycheck to paycheck, but the pastor [Bob Gray Sr] and his secretary got brand new matching Cadillacs one year.' This push for funds culminated in the Temple’s 'give it all' week, as Rachel recounts, 'They wanted everyone’s money to go toward random things. But they wouldn’t let people leave on Wednesday night church without having a certain amount of money guaranteed. They would expect families to give up their whole paychecks.'. . .

"'The ultimate determiner of whom should date whom, I was later to learn, was Bob Gray Sr himself. If a couple did not have his approval, they were not to be a couple. The man of God had ultimate authority in these matters.' This claim is supported by the student handbook for the Temple’s college, which states that 'Parent, pastor, and Pastor Gray must all be in agreement to a dating couple.'”. . .

"Former principal Russell Thomas Hirner was indicted on fifteen counts of child sexual abuse. . . . I have been told that the church knew about what was going on and didn’t do anything until a mom of one of the victims read it in her daughter’s diary. They ended up going to the pastor who then called the police. The church paid the victims some money, but they were told that they had to tithe it back to the church.”

For further research, there are various links to other documents, such as the Longview Christian Academy handbook:

LCA-Handbook-2018-Final (1).pdf

drive.google.com drive.google.com
 
This is/was the very definition of a CULT!!!

So sad......our Lord is worthy of worship. Men are not!!

I understand how people got caught up in it. You're exhausted from working bus routes, a regular job, and trying to be a perfect person, plus being broke and giving every dime so the "leader" can drive a Cadillac!!!

All the while searching for God in the midst of something that is called "church" but is clearly not.
 
Sherryh said:
Read the book
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I would if I could find a copy. When I was very ill and unable to get out and about and was nearly bedridden, Jim would send me cassettes of his weekly services. He will never truly know how much that helped me. The church we were members of wouldn't even do that, nor did they come to check on me at all. So much for 'fundamentalism.'
 
AverageJoe said:
I would if I could find a copy. When I was very ill and unable to get out and about and was nearly bedridden, Jim would send me cassettes of his weekly services. He will never truly know how much that helped me. The church we were members of wouldn't even do that, nor did they come to check on me at all. So much for 'fundamentalism.'
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Use the link above, it's online.
 
Ekklesian said:
I would if there were a cheap e-copy I could download.

Why don't you just tell me what you think he meant?
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I'm in the midst of reading it and found the following that explains why he didn't leave. I'm sure there's more.

I can understand. I believe the first time I heard Bro. Hyles in chapel, he shouted, "DON'T QUIT! DON'T QUIT" as he pounded the pulpit. Years later, I heard him shout from the pulpit in Hammond, "King Jack rules here!" It must have been every preacher boys' dream to have that much power over a crowd.

"The rule was that those who leave and say they are coming back never do. Hence, they are failures. I was not a failure, nor was I a quitter. These things were drilled into us day after day. If we could not make it at TBC we would never make it in the ministry.

Further, we were under the false notion that Longview Baptist Temple's brand of Christianity was the faith once delivered to the saints. LBT was the remnant. We were the only ones left in a world gone liberal. If LBT and what she stood for died, Christianity died. If we ever wanted to be used of God at all, we had to finish TBC and leave with Gray's approval.

Even more, our brand of fundamentalism, Gray's brand of fundamentalism, was the only branch of "Christianity" in which we could ever minister and be approved of God. Gray was heir to the throne in our wing of "fundy-ism." If Gray did not approve of us, our ministry was doomed to failure.

I desperately wanted God's approval and God's blessing on my ministry. Therefore, I must have Gray's approval and Gray's blessing on my ministry. The two things were one and the same. To think otherwise was tantamount to treason. The will of the man of God was the will of God. I must finish what I started. It's scary, now, when I think about it, to what degree we were brainwashed. All of these things are the ear-marks of a cult or cult-like religion.

So I went back. The first Sunday night, I walked forward at invitation and joined the church once again. After the invitation, as Gray read the decisions off that had been made, he came to mine. "James Spurgeon is coming tonight to join our church by letter from Open Bible Baptist Church in Waterflow, New Mexico. Amen? Where is he?"

Several people pointed to the section where I was sitting.

"There he is," said Gray. "You know what they say, a bad penny always returns."

It was an omen."​
 
One of the themes in "Tales from the Temple" is the repeated conversions and baptisms of the bus kids.

I'd like to interject my own personal experience.

After graduation from HAC, I taught at a fundy school. After a broken engagement, I concluded that I probably would never marry, so I decided to go to graduate school at Tennessee Temple. It was an eye-opening year.

TTU was by far a better academic environment than HAC ever was. I was on the road to becoming perhaps an elementary school principal at a Christian school. Things in my world were going pretty well. And then the light came on.

I received a phone call from some friends who told me about the Dave Hyles/Miller Road situation. There was no question that it was a huge problem. There was undeniable proof.

The second thing that happened was Cliff Robinson, Dr. Roberson's right hand man, was discovered, perhaps even taped, talking about things of a sexual nature with Dr. Roberson's secretary. The church and school were not going to tolerate it. Cliff came in front of the congregation with his family next to him and grudgingly confessed.

The third enlightenment for me was a large meeting we were encouraged to attend. IFB Pastors came around the country to attend a seminar/conference at the church. The place was packed. I sat in the back row and watched for about an hour. This was not a "seminar" like Jack Hyles would have presided over. It was an actual meeting where topics were discussed. The topic I witnessed being discussed was NUMBERS. The moderator at the pulpit said to the preacher crowd something to the effect, "We believe that we should have a standard way of counting people in attendance and baptisms."

I thought, "Finally!" a voice of reason.

To the moderator's right sat a group of well-known hyper-IFB preachers. I can't remember the man's name, but he was one of the pastors who was later discovered in very compromising situations with female members of his congregation. Anyway, he stood up and announced to the group that he objected to having a standard way of counting. Then he said something like, "This reeks of the problems we had with the Southern Baptist Convention!"

I don't believe they ever agreed on a way to use their math skills to correctly count baptisms, etc. because so many of them developed a false sense of power and pride over their inflated numbers.

I got out. Finished my semester and went back to create a new life outside of the fundy world. It was difficult at first, but I'm so thankful I did not get further shackled to the craziness.

Trust in God, not man. People will continually fail us. There is no man who is my hero.

P.S. It occurred to me this morning that I may have one man who is a hero to me. It is my brother who is a retired detective.
 
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I finally finished this awesome book, which I knew nothing about, and I have recommended it to friends who are also out of the IFB.

Good job, James Spurgeon. May the Lord bless you richly.


You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.

-Psalm 23: 5 & 6
 
Ekklesian said:
I would if there were a cheap e-copy I could download.

Why don't you just tell me what you think he meant?
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I believe everything I read he was trying to explain so we could understand. I had a couple tell me that when the church needed money they would lock the doors and not let you out until you paid up. I'm just surprized no one called the police. But it was a different time
 
  • TRUTH!
Reactions: Jo
Enjoyed reading
illinoisguy said:
For those who are not familiar with James Spurgeon's book "Tales From the Temple" about his experiences at Bob Gray's Longview Baptist Temple and Texas Baptist College, here is the link - the book is well worth reading:


Meanwhile, Bob Gray's "Solve Church Problems" web site appears to be completely down, at least for now. Likewise, the Independentbaptist.com web site, which carried material similar to Solve Church Problems, also appears to be down.
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Tales from the Temple.
 

What you are about to read is real.​
​
:ROFLMAO:

That's not mocking laughter. The book opens like a dime detective novel, and I just laughed. Am laughing as I type this. I get to. I was targeted by an IFB cult.

It's certainly not the way I'd have started a story, but Jack Webb is a bit before my double-digit years.
 
AverageJoe said:
I would if I could find a copy. When I was very ill and unable to get out and about and was nearly bedridden, Jim would send me cassettes of his weekly services. He will never truly know how much that helped me. The church we were members of wouldn't even do that, nor did they come to check on me at all. So much for 'fundamentalism.'
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This link will give you the text of the entire book. That is how I read it. He made it free from day one, even though there were physical copies printed and sent out.

 
AverageJoe said:
Thanks, Scott. I thought I had a copy already, but, I didn't. I've got it on my list as being read, but, I really don't recall doing so.
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I never had a hard copy, but after James finished posting the Tales to the original FFF, they were made available in a word-processor file, and I'm sure I've still got that booting around on some old hard drive. Though it was in Microsoft Works. Don't know what I'm supposed to do with that anymore.

Anyway, here are some words to live by: "Grapes don't grow on trees."
 
Ransom said:
I never had a hard copy, but after James finished posting the Tales to the original FFF, they were made available in a word-processor file, and I'm sure I've still got that booting around on some old hard drive. Though it was in Microsoft Works. Don't know what I'm supposed to do with that anymore.

Anyway, here are some words to live by: "Grapes don't grow on trees."
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I've still got Microsoft Works on my computer. I use it all the time in writing. I guess I just got used to using it over several others like Amipro. I lost that when I had a crash a few years back.
 
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