Well, it's not because of Israel's Christianity or Christian character. Of that we can be sure.
Didn't say it was and I agree with you about their "character." With that said, the world in general has a profound hatred for the nation of Israel. As Michael Medved has often stated: Evangelical Christians are Israel's best friend! This is quite profound coming from religious (non-Christian) Jew!
No one is obsessed with their extermination.
Did you skip out and smoke pot during your history class? Do I really have to remind how they have been persecuted relentlessly by both Muslims and the Roman Catholic Church? How about Hitler and his "Final Solution?" The entire Middle East wants to "Wipe Israel off the map!" How do you account for such rabid hatred?
Talmudic Judaism is so far from Sinai, they should relocate to Mars...or maybe Pluto.
No disagreement here but this was not my point. I am talking about their cultural identity as a people. We just finished up Judges in our Sunday School class and I posed the question whether there ever was some sort of "Golden Age" where everyone in Israel were believers and followers of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Throughout their history, Israel has been looking for "Messiah" to be some sort of political leader that would issue in such a "Golden Era" as I have mentioned. It is very rare that sin, redemption, and repentance are discussed among the Israeli people aside from the prophets whom they have largely rejected! As Paul stated, "They are all Israel which are of Israel (Rom 9:6).
Ancient Palestinian Jews were pasty-white Europeans?
Who's to say what the ancient Jewish people looked like? There are some very distinct features of middle-eastern Jews along with many Arabs and North Africans who look rather "Caucasian." Are Jews largely "mixed" today? Quite likely but they still have not lost their cultural identity.
The language was preserved by the writing. There are still a lot of Latin masses, and if nationality and the Christian religion were as interlocked as Judaism, we'd be seeing much the same thing with Latin.
There are no native groups adopting Judaism and learning Hebrew. Islam has spread around the globe with converts learning Arabic in order to read the Qu'ran in the original language. Same with Latin for the "Western Church" but not so with Judaism! There may be "proselytes" to Judaism but they usually align themselves with an established community of ethnic Jews.
But, of course, the Scriptures came through the ancient Jews. So the preservation of the written language was for the benefit of God's children, and is not a sign of God's favor for a certain biological line.
You're getting warmer doc! I also agree with you about the preservation of the language being for our benefit. I am also not convinced that God has any special "Favor" towards any specific biological line. God's heart is towards HIS ELECT which are chosen from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) with include both Jew and Gentile.
Nevertheless, the New Testament scriptures still make a very clear distinction between Jew and Gentile especially Rom 11:25.
But world-wide, Jesus is known as Christ, not as Messiah. So there's that. What do you think God was signifying by that?
Christos (Messiah, Annointed) was used throughout Jesus's earthly ministry with Jesus himself using the term asking the pharisees "What think ye of Christ..." (Mt 22:42) and they clearly understood of what he was speaking. Messiah (
Messias) is a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word
Mashiach and is synonymous and interchangeable with
Christos but I believe it is clear to all (or most, perhaps) that "Messiah" is distinctly Jewish and since the Jews have rejected Jesus as Messiah, and are looking for "another," any talk of "Messiah" among Jewish folk would undoubtedly pertain to the one they believe is to come (and of whom Jesus said, would "come in his own name" (Jn 5:43).
Neither can I name any other ethnic group who've blasphemed Christ or the Holy Spirit more. So?
I think we both agree that "Not all are Israel which are of Israel" and yes, unregenerate blood descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will die in their sins just as they have died in their sins in Egypt, in the wilderness, throughout the period of the judges and kings, and so forth. They blasphemed God every time they forsook him and served Baalim and every time they rejected and killed the prophets! The Jewish people most certainly are a monument of unbelief and are largely vessels of destruction which God has endured with much longsuffering.
I'm not. True, eternal Israel are the children of Abraham by faith, and circumcision is of the heart. This geo-political state we're illegitimately calling Israel, isn't Israel.
With certain qualifications, we are 100% in agreement with the first part of your statement. Paul's exact wording (in paraphrased "King James English") is "He is a Jew inwardly whose circumcision is of the heart" (Rom 2:29).
Is the ancient nation of Israel (which was often filled with blaspheming, idolatrous, God-hating apostates) any more legitimate than the Israel we know of in modern times? Who are you to say what nation is and is not legitimate? Plenty say the very same thing of the United States and other lands which were conquered and presently occupied by "white people" so what are you trying to say?
What should be done with this "illegitimate geo-political state?
What I'm reacting to is the practical, if not actual, idolatry in evangelical and primarily American Christians who have displaced Christ in their hearts with a desire to see a Jewish dominion more than they do heaven.
I can fully appreciate this and thank you for clarifying. I too share a good deal of disgust with today's "Pop-eschatology" culture promulgated by Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, and many others. I did come to Christ in the early 80s at the height of the "End Times, Late, Great Planet Earth" craze so while I share a great deal of disdain, I also have a good bit of gratitude as well because this is where everything made sense to me and God brought me to his saving knowledge.
I often tell my Reformed friends that "I am trying hard to have you convince me that amillennialism is the correct eschatological view." I really would love to believe that there are better days ahead for my kids and grandkids. I have tried to let go of the premillennial view but it just will not let go of me! For me, it seems the futurist approach to Revelation makes the most sense and I see with greater and greater clarity how God will likely bring everything to pass! I am more of a "Historical Premillennialist" these days. Romans 11:25 will one day become reality although I am not 100% certain how this will look exactly. Israel will not be "Blind" forever and one day, God will find his elect among the nation of Israel once again. Since I reject much of the "separate people with separate destinies" nonsense promulgated by Scofield and Larkin, I no longer see the necessity of a "pretribulational rapture" but I hope they are right nonetheless! I do not think either of us actually want to be martyrs!
You're not in a good place.
I am in a far better place than you would know and I hope you realize now that you have seriously misjudged me! I agree that those thinking that they will be "Raptured" out of their corporate corner offices and luxury BMWs are not in a good place! There is a storm coming and people had better be ready to face it!
Now, as promised, here is my reason why I believe God has preserved the Jewish people and has allowed them to re-emerge as a nation once again:
As you have said, the word of God was given to us by the Jewish people living in the land we know of today as Israel. God's word therefore has a historical connection to this land and to the Jewish people. Everything recorded in God's word actually took place in this part of the world and the Jewish people are (even in their unbelief) a testimony to this irrefutable fact. Understanding it from this perspective, I can understand the world's blind hatred towards the Jewish people and especially towards those who are living in Israel today! They would love nothing less than to "wipe Israel off the face of the map" and pretend as if they never existed!
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